What's Wrong with the Hobby?

[DougCooper]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

less typing, more marching.

less individual thinking, more unit thinking (the fractionating phenomena)

more learning, less whining

thank an event organizer and attend their better and better events - because that has been the big difference over the last few years

[Rev]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

This thread, well some of it, and some of the thread about vendors reminds me of some church board meetings I've been attended. When you boil it down there will always be issues of honesty when dealing with people. At the same time there will always be issues of misunderstanding, reactionary responses, and misunderstanding. Just like those board meetings if we will focus on the essentials of our hobby (and it is a hobby for most of us), put pride aside, and realise that we are doing this to honour those men and women who actually lived it, the hobby will fare well. It is history, something that happened. We can relive all of it. We wouldn't want to (bullets and shells leave a terrible mess). What we can relive should be recreated as well as we can accomplish it. For some that level of authenticity will be different. Frankly, I'd rather pard with a fellow with the right attitude and farby gear than a jerk with 'perfect' authenticity.

[RJSamp]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Unfortunately my 'hobby' consists of reenacting ACW battles....and utilizing bugle signals to manuever troops via bugled orders. History centric events that offer battalion - brigade sized forces that manuever by battalion/brigade are few and far between as we all know. Throw in conflicts with job and end of school year activities (State Volleyball finals, graduation, Memorial Day weekend sounding Taps over a dozen times) and that limits the events for me specifically.

the two Outposts I've attended have featured Company level manuevering, not battalion/brigade level. McDowell 2005 with Bill Watson was fun for me....and sounding for Bill Cross at the memorial ceremony a big highlight.

The decline of the NSA events is particularly troublesome.....it seems like a long time ago that I was talking to Dom and the AOP via bugle while mounted on a horse at Raymond...or the Chick-A-Dusty.

Personally I'm not interested in a couple of company get together, living history, muster, vignette.....that's not why I got into the hobby. When I started in 1997 I though that a McDowell 2005 or an A135 was a 'regular' / normal event...rations, military structure, recreate battles, armies on the move, sleeping in the rain, enduring hard ships, and lot's of bugling.....little did I know that it wouldn't be the norm.....OH WELL.

What's wrong with the hobby? Most events are getting as bad as your local Ren Faire.....(well at least not as much blatant DRUG use as a Ren Faire).....and spectator attendance is down.....

[Eric Tipton]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Greetings:

I think that most of what is "wrong" with our hobby has more to do with outside factors than inside issues. The bottom line is that interest (for now) in the Civil War appears to be down. That means fewer people in the field and fewer people visiting battlefields, which means less money for protecting the battlefields and less awareness from the public. Now, we can debate whether we can do anything about this... or not. RJ, this is the reason for the numbers you seek - not because of something we are doing internally. I have heard this nostalgia before about the good old days when there were thousands in the field. How often does that happen now - at ANY event?

The discussion of "Keyboard Campaigners" is valid, but this, as Sam Watkins might say, is the "side show to the big show." I don't think the percentage of people who attend c/p/h events compared to the whole will ever change much. I am not saying that it can't, but that is a tougher road to hoe. The real question is how large of a pool of people do we have to draw from?

The answer, IMHO, is to continue to do what we are already doing (on the c/p/h side). Continue to build better, more creative and more historically-based events; build a stronger network of people and create awareness of what we are doing - raise money, take photos, publish articles and present ourselves professionally - in other words, market what we are doing to the best of our collective ability - and this includes the way we present our web sites on-line and how people view what we do. It is either that, or one of us needs to write the most authentic, kick-ass Civil War movie of all time and sell Spielberg on the idea. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it sure beats the hand-wringing and self-doubt that we seem to experience every year about this time.

To visit the Keyboard Campaigner thing again, I have a pet phrase for myself - "I'd rather be doing the things that I have talked about than talk about all the things I am going to do." There are plenty of campaigners whose post count on the forums is very disproportionate to the time they spend in the field or researching or planning events, or writing, etc. But, again, that is just my opinion.

Merry Christmas. How about we spend some time with our families over the holidays and then lets's kick some ass in 2008. To everyone in the hobby, I offer a view of how we are probably seen by everyone who isn't a reenactor. This is a classic and was the inspiration for our Aprils Fools joke here at the AC a couple of years ago. Sometimes we need to be able to look at ourselves and laugh:

CLICK HERE FOR A LOOK IN THE "MIRROR". Happy Festivus!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Hallo!

Ha! Boulderdash and Verities, I say!
More like:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/nerds

;) :)

Curt
Bah Humbug Mess

[Rev]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Too Good!!!

[guad42]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

It is either that, or one of us needs to write the most authentic, kick-ass Civil War movie of all time and sell Spielberg on the idea. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it sure beats the hand-wringing and self-doubt that we seem to experience every year about this time.

Considering that much of what we see in living history mirrors what is popular at the movies or in the bookstores, this is a fair statement Eric.

I can remember when just a lad with no money in my pocket a time when films like "Glory" and Ken Burns' "The Civil War" really inspired people of my generation to read about or pursue in some way an avid interest in the CW. Sure, this hobby already existed then, but can anyone deny the influence (positive and negative) of popular culture on reenacting?

I am certain that "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" (not to mention the cursed video games) had a similar effect on WWII reenacting. For a time I was a squad leader in a WWII reenacting unit, most of the lads were younger than myself and most had been inspired by those films to do research and later reenact. Those with only cursory or misguided interest did not last, those that cared about history did.

I believe that widespread interest in the CW is lower than say ten years ago (though I would not say waning). I can remeber going to a commercial bookstore like Barnes and Noble and seeing an entire floor to celing rack on CW topics, now that is barely two shelves with WWII books taking up several.

At some point, some piece of pop culture will eventually come along and will probably inspire another batch of young folks (and a few older ones) to look into this hobby. The results? Probably mixed. However, I am sure that Campaigners will see the effects.

-Sam Dolan

[OldKingCrow]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

My opinion -Everything is wrong with the hobby in Florida.

Few authentic units or groups....mainly just the same individuals..at FLA events you see the same folks hanging at Mr. Blunt's sutlery. I've pretty much relegated myself going to events and just watching.

The fortunate of these folks are accepted within the authentic groups on here like the WIG and SCAR and travel to participate in those amazing events.

We are getting a new history center here in Tampa (under construction) and leaders in the local scene, like Ross Lamoreaux are developing a strong living history component to that facility. I cant wait to use this an outlet to put to good use the hours of research and $$$$ I have spent here with approved vendors on kit.

[dusty27]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

less individual thinking, more unit thinking (the fractionating phenomena)

Doug,

Not sure what you mean by this? My thought is folks don't do enough "individual thinking" and attend events that their unit decides to go to instead of looking into event on their own.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

...but that is a tougher road to hoe.

Eric

That's "a tougher row to hoe", a cotton field term, but I get your point.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Yes, Chris, Florida is sadly lacking, and as one of those minions hanging out at Mr. Blunt's establishment, I say we have to be proactive and go out and grab people. I don't mean that "we're better than you but we want to help" approach, but the kind of work we've been quietly doing for awhile - set an example, softly poke and prod the willing, and not consider ourselves missionaries, just ordinary teachers. Also, I agree that we've got a good opportunity coming up when the new history center opens up, with the right people in place running the show and a willingness and desire to have quality interpretive programs.

[toptimlrd]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Hey Ross,

Since I circle in many of the same circles you do, what we may need to do is come together and try to get some events more like we are discusing down in Florida. We have a few already (especially if you count S. GA), but I agree it is not enough. Needless to say I am a bit of a fence sitter and still enjoy the mainstream events for what they are as well as the more history heavy events for what they are, I would not be opposed to helping with a few Florida based events from time to time. We have some excellent areas to work with for living history exercises which can be done on a small scale unlike a full blown battle reenactment. I love my GA bretheren but with gas prices being what it is, I don't get to go to as many Armory Guards events as I would like. As far as equipment though, we are getting some fantastic authentic gear vendors down Florida way so that excuse is now out. Why don't we talk at some point in the future and see what we can come up with. I'm willing to put my efforts where mymouth is.

[billwatson]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Well, turn the question around: What could be better about the hobby?

There's plenty of company sized events to attend that meet the higher expectations, even the expectations of those who are very demanding. You might have to travel and maybe you only get to do a couple of those rather than going to a not-so-history-centric event every month of the year like a lot of us did in the old days, but really there's a lot to choose from, we know each other better at this end than ever before, and it's pretty good times. You hardly need to apply gaussian blur at all to those events to think you stepped into history.

It's trying to put together something with a bit more heft that could be better. And even there, there's stuff going on in our own heads that turns us sour. There are bigger events with better standards and higher expectations, but you just can't bring the same attitude you take to a small event with very detailed and very high expectations, or you're doomed to unhappiness. Yeah, we can get the beef ration that RJ expects, hundreds of pounds of beef that was on the hoof two hours earlier. And good as that is, maybe something will go slightly off the rails and a battalion commander, who's got a history as a real butcher, will "break scenario," cut the meat because he's fast and good at it, and put it in cardboard boxes because the period packaging is a mile away locked in somebody's trunk. If that's the end of the world for you, everything "ruint" because of that or because the shoulder/body joinery on some coats isn't perfect and it's just pounding in your head like a linebacker with an icepick trying to get out, then there's no solution. But if that bothers you and you think, "Well, what he needs is somebody to line up a rank-and-file butcher and organize the packaging, and I'll do that for the next event," then we can maybe move forward and share good mental health. Ditto that guy that got lost in Virginia two years ago. Point and pout if you want, or step up, draw period maps and do the staff work to make sure it doesn't happen again (which is in fact what happened. Thanks to all.)

People who want to try something more challenging keep asking me what to bring to history-heavy events. They mean "is my uniform good enough?" And I keep telling them "bring the attitude that part of your 'duty' is to help make everyone else's weekend as good as you want yours to be." That's what could be better, and it could be better from the history-heavy end of the spectrum as well as the history-light end. When you move past the 50-man weekends and take on the next level, the incoming fire seems to be from 360 degrees of horizon. It's almost like some folks think anyone's success at that level is going to somehow hurt what they're trying to do. Or maybe they're just cranks.

I like the events with a little more heft. I like companies big enough to function properly and I like battalions capable of staffing all the things a battalion was expected to do, including work details, guard mount and all the rest. I like watching a hundred shebangs blossom in the rain because guys are dealing with the weather using the tools, materials and skills of 1862. I like the extra camp activity; it adds immeasurably to everybody's experience to look up and see things being taken care of because guys are stepping up to their "military" roles and getting it done, without a scenario, a set of instructions, or needing to be told. It is exactly what I thought it was going to be about when I started doing this in 1990, operational weekends where we plop ourselves into a moment and function like it is 186x. It is not perfect. It will never be perfect. But it keeps getting better. I'll let the fellows doing right shoulder shift four degrees out of perfect slide -- I'll let the little things I know are wrong not bother me, because the end result is there to be appreciated if only I have the wit to avoid the megrims.

[Milliron]

Re: What's Wrong with the Hobby?

Well, turn the question around: What could be better about the hobby?

There's plenty of company sized events to attend that meet the higher expectations, even the expectations of those who are very demanding. You might have to travel and maybe you only get to do a couple of those rather than going to a not-so-history-centric event every month of the year like a lot of us did in the old days, but really there's a lot to choose from, we know each other better at this end than ever before, and it's pretty good times. You hardly need to apply gaussian blur at all to those events to think you stepped into history.

It's trying to put together something with a bit more heft that could be better. And even there, there's stuff going on in our own heads that turns us sour. There are bigger events with better standards and higher expectations, but you just can't bring the same attitude you take to a small event with very detailed and very high expectations, or you're doomed to unhappiness. Yeah, we can get the beef ration that RJ expects, hundreds of pounds of beef that was on the hoof two hours earlier. And good as that is, maybe something will go slightly off the rails and a battalion commander, who's got a history as a real butcher, will "break scenario," cut the meat because he's fast and good at it, and put it in cardboard boxes because the period packaging is a mile away locked in somebody's trunk. If that's the end of the world for you, everything "ruint" because of that or because the shoulder/body joinery on some coats isn't perfect and it's just pounding in your head like a linebacker with an icepick trying to get out, then there's no solution. But if that bothers you and you think, "Well, what he needs is somebody to line up a rank-and-file butcher and organize the packaging, and I'll do that for the next event," then we can maybe move forward and share good mental health. Ditto that guy that got lost in Virginia two years ago. Point and pout if you want, or step up, draw period maps and do the staff work to make sure it doesn't happen again (which is in fact what happened. Thanks to all.)

People who want to try something more challenging keep asking me what to bring to history-heavy events. They mean "is my uniform good enough?" And I keep telling them "bring the attitude that part of your 'duty' is to help make everyone else's weekend as good as you want yours to be." That's what could be better, and it could be better from the history-heavy end of the spectrum as well as the history-light end. When you move past the 50-man weekends and take on the next level, the incoming fire seems to be from 360 degrees of horizon. It's almost like some folks think anyone's success at that level is going to somehow hurt what they're trying to do. Or maybe they're just cranks.

I like the events with a little more heft. I like companies big enough to function properly and I like battalions capable of staffing all the things a battalion was expected to do, including work details, guard mount and all the rest. I like watching a hundred shebangs blossom in the rain because guys are dealing with the weather using the tools, materials and skills of 1862. I like the extra camp activity; it adds immeasurably to everybody's experience to look up and see things being taken care of because guys are stepping up to their "military" roles and getting it done, without a scenario, a set of instructions, or needing to be told. It is exactly what I thought it was going to be about when I started doing this in 1990, operational weekends where we plop ourselves into a moment and function like it is 186x. It is not perfect. It will never be perfect. But it keeps getting better. I'll let the fellows doing right shoulder shift four degrees out of perfect slide -- I'll let the little things I know are wrong not bother me, because the end result is there to be appreciated if only I have the wit to avoid the megrims.

As the younger set like to say: QFT! (that's Quoted For Truth for those who were born before 1980 or so)

[OldKingCrow]

Floridians !!!!

I will be hosting the Ben Kite Cocktail Reception

Saturday February 16th (after the hoot and shoot ) starting duskish on the far removed side of CS camp in the woods at Ocean Pond / Olustee. This meet and greet is for likeminded folks to enjoy free period libations and Southern delicacies, but more importantly about laying the foundation for a EBUFU event on the sunny peninsula. Period musicians by all means welcome. If you got something special to bring...please bring it will get consumed.... but please make it 1860's correct. ;)

This event is the namesake of my 3rd Great Grandfather Ben Kite 2nd Florida Cavalry Company K - Ocean Pond Veteran

Open invitation to all members of this board....oh yeah BYOMG .....bring yer own mess gear

Stop by eat your fill….sit a spell.

Please look for future announcements.