Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

[JimKindred]

Re: Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

In this case that doesn't apply.

The state requires background checks for the purchase of modern long guns, the guns in question are currently exempt. All that is proposed is a closing of a loop-hole not a new level of restriction/permit.

Bob,

I believe you are missing one important point. There is no loop hole because original and reproduction muzzleloaders are not classified as firearms under Federal law/regulations therefore if NY does pass this legislation there will be a NEW level of restriction/permit.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

Bob,

I believe you are missing one important point. There is no loop hole because original and reproduction muzzleloaders are not classified as firearms under Federal law/regulations therefore if NY does pass this legislation there will be a NEW level of restriction/permit.

Not so.

The fine point you are missing it that it is widely recognized that states have the right to impliment gun laws above and beyond federal the level.

As an already accepted example in some states it is legal to own an automatic weapon or machine gun or to own a pistol without a permit.

None of those things are legal in NY and those restrictions have all stood the test of case law (in both State and Federal court) as with in the rights of the state to restrict such things withotu being a violation of the second amendment.

New York has already done that (and here is where all you 'states rights' boys should be defending their ability to do so) and is well within its legal rights to do so.

What NYS is now doing is saying we want to reclassify these weapons and bring them inline with our existing laws for OUR RESIDENTS.

It isn't saying you have to have a permit to carry one of these. The law is saying if you are a NYS resident and you want to buy on of these (in state) you need to go through a background check as you would for a rifle or shotgun.

It doesn't affect anybody outside NYS and it won't affect you're ability as an out-of-stater to bring your gun to a reenactment in state.

Sorry your position doesn't legally stand up under NYS laws.

[JimKindred]

Re: Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

Bob,

You and I are just going to have to disagree. Your comments strike me as coming from someone who fully supports gun control measures. As FFL dealer and owner of firearms that run the range of flintlocks to belts feds you and I are on a completely different level when it comes to the discussion of firearms legislation. I am positive that these new restrictions in NY will go a long way in reducing the ever increasing level of muzzleloading related crimes in your state. There is no doubt that the liquor store employees in NY will sleep much better at night once this law is passed.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

Hallo!

"It isn't saying you have to have a permit to carry one of these. The law is saying if you are a NYS resident and you want to buy on of these (in state) you need to go through a background check as you would for a rifle or shotgun.

It doesn't affect anybody outside NYS and it won't affect you're ability as an out-of-stater to bring your gun to a reenactment in state."

I am confused on that point.

As an Ohio resident, if I attend a Civil War reenactment in Mumford Village or Elmira NY say, and wish to buy a .58 "longarm" I would be unable to do so?
As I understand/misunderstand this proposed law, a NYS resident would also be unable to buy a "Springfield" without first having the "back ground check" process done by someone, somewhere, sometime.
(Unless it is untrue that NY wants to bring muzzleloading BP guns and particularly muzzleloading BP guns OVER .50 into "line" with all other NY modern firearm laws and procedures; and NOT exempt them as "non guns," or "replicas of antiques??")

:)

Curt
Matchlock to Belt-fed Shooter Mess

(The first original CW era arm I ever bought in the Way Back Daze was a Spencer carbine from a shop in Kentucky. I was denied purchase as I was not a KY resident. My friend's' grandmother had to go in and buy it for me.)

[JimKindred]

Re: Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

Curt,

You are correct. In addition muskets now ordered and shipped direct would have to go through an FFL dealer adding additional cost to the end user. Crime using muzzleloaders in NY is not rampant, you would think the legislators in that state would have more to do than something like this. Recently I shipped four 1842 Springfields to Germany where surprisingly enough even there they are not considered firearms. Why is this so? Because the German government realizes they pose no serious threat to anyone, same as in the majority of states in the US. The aim of this legislation is to fix a problem that does not exist.

Eventually this law could extend to the point that reenactors in NY could not purchase used muskets from out of state reenactors without having to run the transfer through an FFL dealer who would conduct the NICS check. Currently FFL dealers are the only ones authorized to use the FBI NICS system. This would be required of all private purchases from an individual out side of NY transfering to an individual residing in NY. For transfers between individuals dealers usually charge around $20 for the service however in some cases 10% of the value of the firearm being transferred is the fee. For a $600 musket that 10% adds up pretty quick.

Another consequence of this proposed legislation is that no muskets or other antique firearms could be sold to a resident of NY from this forum or any other forum without going through an FFL dealer. All this done because the musket is now classified as a modern firearm for residents of NY. It is the unintended consequences in such legislation that has to be avoided. Rarely is firearms legislation passed that does not contain these.

[JimKindred]

UPDATE Re: Proposed NY legislation concerning antique/black powder weapons

NY lawmaker drops licensing from antique gun regulation plan

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=7873304

While it may sound like you are safe, continue to watch this, legislators have stabbed gun owners in the back more often than not. It is going to be interesting to see how he plans to determine if a person is a member of "museums, historical societies, historic sites, and groups conducting re-enactment, living history, educational or interpretive events."