What did guys back then call "leathers"

[davidf]

In my project I have been working on, Mickey Black made the point that a modern "reenactorism" is that we call our cartridge box, waist belt, cap box, and bayonett scabbard "leathers." Mickey said he has not seen any documentation that shows that soldiers of the period called these things "leathers." Can someone verify that, or can someone show that they did call them "leathers"?

[john duffer]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

Accoutrements springs to mind as a possibility.

[Mcouioui]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

I do not know for the civil war and for the United States, but in France at the same period called it to us " the equipment " or " the accoutrement " and later " the brellage "

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

Hallo!

Sometimes "traps."

Curt

[dbuckley]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

I also seem to recall at least one instance of the men being told to "Couter Up".

[davidf]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

Does anyone have actual hard evidence of the names for acoutrements that they could link here?

Also, how many people actually still call their acoutrements "leathers"? Is that still a major "reenactorism"?

[7thNJcoA]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

In "Give it to them Jersey Blues" by Joe Bilby they call them traps throughout the book. The books starts in Early 1861 with the training of the 7thNJ Vol Inf. The men give a good description on how to wear thier traps in a letter home and go into detail on how they are yelled at if tier traps hang low.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

David

Sometimes you have to actually open up a book and read through it. Not everything from the US Civil War time period is available in the form of "links" to a website. I am currently reading the new revised edition of Co Aytch, in which the author (Sam Watkins, 1st TN) speaks more than a few times of his cartridge box, and he refers to it as such... "In addition, every one of us had his gun, cartridge-box, knapsack and three days' rations, a pistol on each side and a long Bowie knife." Then in the chapter on Cheat Mtn he writes "I saw soldiers running to their tents and grabbing their guns and cartridge-boxes ." Later, at Shiloh, he reports, "We were not more than twenty paces from them; and here I was shot through the hat and cartridge-box."

The military definition of "accoutrements" is "equipment other than uniforms and weapons", which would be more than just the leather items like the cartridge box, and would include issued items not made of leather such as the canteen and haversack. As such Watkins does make a distinction in his writing by naming the individual articles. He makes reference to accoutrements separately when "On one occasion, while inspecting the arms and accoutrements of our regiments, (the officer) came to inspect Company H and he said, "Shentlemens, vat for you make de pothook out of de sword and de bayonet, and trow de cartridge-box in de mud? Watkins meaning here seems clear enough...he does not refer to his accoutrements jointly as "leathers" (or even "traps"). Obviously, the vernacular varied by region and by Army, but any period references to "leathers" as a term for the accoutrement set are not known to me, or least not easily found.

Does anybody now use the term "leathers" in reference to a set of accoutrements? Nobody I know.

[paulcalloway]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

Orders to dress & put on accoutrements at 2.00 A.M. to be ready for any emergency" were issued.

Cyrus Hussey dairy, 48th OVI.

http://www.48ovvi.org/oh48hd8.html

March 5th 1865
Remained in camp all day. Capt Cameron had inspection of arms and accoutrements. Regts presented a very good appearance.

Cornelius Platter diary, 81st OVI

http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/hargrett/platter/platter.php

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

The term "leathers" you speak of is undoubtedly a reenactorism. Accoutrements is the period and therefore the correct way to address your individual leather items as a set. While “traps” can be referenced in numerous sources, as some have exampled in their posts here, accoutrements is the majorities’ word of choice.

[cwbauer]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

I've always called them accoutrements
Chrsi Bauer

[markj]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

I've plowed through thousands of published and unpublished letters, hundreds of books, dozens of diaries (published and unpublished), and over 100 newspapers in full or part.

Not once I have ever seen "leathers" used as a nickname for accoutrements.

Accordingly, here's the "Official New Jersey Response" to your question:

"Forget about it."

Very truly and cordially yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[RudyN]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

I have been doing Civil War reenacting since the mid 1980s and have always used the word accoutrements for the items as a group and individually as cartridge box, belt, canteen, etc. So I believe that the word accoutrements as a group is the most "authentic" In what I have read so far the word is accoutrments. Might be wrong, but maybe not.

[AZReenactor]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

Personally I like to call them my "special friends that carry the ammo, caps, bayonet, and side knife used to kill rebels or indians", but that's just me. :-)

Seriously though, until someone finds that odd quote of someone referring to their accouterments or traps as "leathers" this etymological examination seems to have pretty much run its course.

Now as to that other term "guys", as used in reference to one's fellows, there seems to still be a rich etymological landscape left to explore. The OED identifies the roots of this usage to America in 1847 but that doesn't exactly tell us how common this usage actually was in common society.

GUY "fellow," 1847, originally Amer.Eng.; earlier (1836) "grotesquely or poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes," leader of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament (Nov. 5, 1605), paraded through the streets by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy. The male proper name is from Fr., related to It. Guido, lit. "leader," of Gmc. origin

Slang: A Dictionary of the Turf, the Ring, the Chase, the Pit, of Bon-ton and the varieties of life. (London, 1823)

Guy, a—an ugly mug, or queerly-togged old-one, like the effigies of Guy Fawkes on the fifth of November.

The Slang Dictionary: Or, The Vulgar Words, Street Phrases, and "fast expressions" of High and Low Society (1865 London)

GUY, a fright, a dowdy, an ill-dressed person. Derived from the effigy of Guy Fawkes carried about by boys on Nov. 5.

The Slang Dictionary: Etymological, Historical, and Anecdotal (London, 1874)

Guy, a fright, a dowdy, an ill-dressed person. Derived from the effigy of Guy Fawkes carried about by boys on Nov. 5. "Hollo, boys, another Guy!"

Ain't words fun? ;-)

[Dan Munson]

Re: What did guys back then call "leathers"

Troy, I believe "guy" was also occasionally used as a verb, wherein to "guy" someone was to jest at or otherwise provoke him. So, feel free to "guy" the next reenactor who refers to his "leathers."

...and I'll see you this weekend at Camp Roberts (a local West Coast EBUFU for the those out east).