Should our clothes all fit?

[cprljohnivey]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

I'm kinda partial to the Dr. Who scarf myself but actually carry a cut blanket in the field. Sorry for the getting off track. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

The western side would not have had as much time nor the selection of sizes.

Hi Paul,

The Department of the Pacific & The Department of Arizona & New Mexico by 1862 had the exact same system in place. With the pickings being virtually the same. Being issued by the same standard of the QMD out of San Francisco QM and St Louis QM, With the same range of sizes. That is the beauty of the US QM system. Uniformity of issue no matter where the soldier is posted (for the most part)


This beign said. The plight of the soldier being issued clothing, that did, or did not fit was the for the most part same universally in the US army of the 1860-1870 time frame in the West and East. The clothing was issued to companies by percentage of size. With the size 2's & 3's being more abundant than the size 1's and 4's. Due to ratio of size of the soldier.

After clothes were issued, it was expected that the soldiers would sort out amongst themselves to get a good fitting uniform. Some were not as quick as others, add to that contractors mis marking their products size. You end up having have a fellow with a set of trousers or a blouse that is either too tight or two small, or too big.

The problem of mis marked size in clothing was so bad that just post war Gen Megs orderd the remaining clothing on hand to be re sized marked ( These pieces of clothing have the stamp " RESIZE" and an new size mark in the clothing.


Just because a fellow served his country in the west does not mean he wore rags and buckskins.

I suggest the book "The Civil War in Arizona" by Andrew Masich & "Life Among the Apache" by John C Cremaony. These covers some of this.

Another good book is Doug McChristian's "The Army in the West 1870-1880" It covers in the begining chapters the issue of clothing & its quality in the Department of the Pacific.

Don S

[roundshot]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Attached is my favorite Fashion Plate from Gentlemen's Quarterly, showing the Ambulance Corps of the Engineer Brigade, AOP in 1863, You see it all!

[jmbyrnes]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

My kit is made up of several different sizes especially when it comes to coats. My early war coats and private purchase coats fit me very well. In my opinion a coat that was made by a private tailor or a family member would be much more fitting than a widely produced coat coming from a depot. Therefore, my mid and late war coats vary from slight to short in the sleves or length to a bit too large. Keep in mind that soldiers commonly acquired clothes from comrades who may have been KIA. I seriously doubt that all soldiers were outfitted with properly fitting clothes.

Jared Byrnes

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Depends on you not the clothes.

For example when I ordered my sack coat from Wambaugh it fits just fine in the shoulders and around the chest because I'm fairly close to the standard size.

Where it doesn't fit right is on the arms because I'm a long armed cuss. Looks like I dipped my arms in the provebial "flood".

So I'm showing more sleeve than a regular sized guy but the army didn't worry about that did they?

Conversely a short armed guy issued exactly the same coat would either have to roll it up or look like a raggamuffin.

I kinda of have the attitude that I'm ordering the closest size (larger) that I can and just live with the fit because that's what I would have been issued by the depot.

Privates don't have the money for any satorial splender.

[flattop32355]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Attached is my favorite Fashion Plate from Gentlemen's Quarterly, showing the Ambulance Corps of the Engineer Brigade, AOP in 1863, You see it all!

Hot Dang!!!! The fellow with no coat has a pot belly, just like me.

I'm frikkin' authentic! :wink_smil

[COLDSTEEL1865]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

I Have trouble with both my federal And rebel Coats I had them Tailored to fit good and they Have shrunk overtime do to Getting soaked At SHiloh And Again at franklin reenactments. Is There away to keep them from shrinking as i am going to have to replace them now anyhow. some of my friends from my former Group said it looked more authentic on the confed Frock during late war events but i aint sure. Any thoughts Please let me Know....

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

I Have trouble with both my federal And rebel Coats I had them Tailored to fit good and they Have shrunk overtime do to Getting soaked At SHiloh And Again at franklin reenactments. Is There away to keep them from shrinking as i am going to have to replace them now anyhow. some of my friends from my former Group said it looked more authentic on the confed Frock during late war events but i aint sure. Any thoughts Please let me Know....

How are you cleaning them?

Straight cold water cleaning shouldn't caus ethem to shrink that much unless they were a close fit to begin with.

Sure it isn't you that is changing and no tthe clothes? Just a thought.

[COLDSTEEL1865]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

I will admit i am larger than when i first started and i did goof the first time i washed them by handwashing using warm water but alas i am know longer able to wear them properly.what is they preferred method to wash say a federal sack coat .

[Pvt.Tyler]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

I read some where that a soldier said there were two different sizes their uniforms were issued. Too big or too small. i am on the short side so all of my clothing is big even my home sent items like socks, shirts, mittens, etc.
Just thought I would state this

[Pvt.Tyler]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

I just thought of this...
What were the sizes that brogans or boots were issued in. Dose anyone have any information on this. How would soldiers with small feet or over average sized feet get their boots if they could not find a pair that were issued in their size?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize....
NUG...

Shoes were made in Sizes 5 through 12.

As with clothing, they were shipped in boxes of a hundred.
In the fall of 1862, Captain D. THomas wrote to the storekeeper at Washington Depot suggesting changing the proportions per box to:

5 pairs of No. 5's
8 pairs of No. 6's
30 pairs of No. 7's
40 pairs of No. 8's
12 pairs of No. 9's
4 pairs of No. 10's
1 pair of No. 11's.

Storekeeper Colonel D. H. Rucker, passed the suggestion to Lt. Colonel Crosman at Philadelphia Depot adding the curent system in use for 20 years did not suit the Westerners and the Easterners equally- as the Westerners needed larger sizes.

Curt

[Brian Baird]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Here a copy of the letter Herr Schmidt is referring to:


DEPOT OF ARMY CLOTHING AND EQUIPAGE,
Washington, D. C., October 29, 1862.
Col. D. H. RUCKER,
Quartermaster U.S. Army:
COLONEL: Your letter of the 25th instant, inclosing one from the Quartermaster-General, in reference to the sizes of bootees sent to the Army of the Potomac, has been received.
Since the 8th of September. I have shipped for use of the army to Harper’s Ferry, Hagerstown, and Frederick 66,400 pairs bootees, of the following sizes, viz: 1,644 pairs fives, 3,528 pairs sixes, 12,612 pairs sevens, 27,480 pairs eights, 17,416 pairs nines, 2,976 pairs tens, 744 pairs elevens; 37,200 pairs were sent in boxes of 100 each, put up agreeably to the tariff of sizes now used in the army; the balance (29,200) were sent in boxes containing from fives to nines, inclusive.
My experience in issuing boots and bootees to the army in the East has caused me to believe that in the present tariff of sizes now in vogue there are too many large sizes. I would respectfully recommend the adoption of the following tariff to every 100 pairs of bootees and boots, as being better suited for the whole army: 5 pairs of number fives, 8 pairs of number sixes, 30 pairs of number sevens, 40 pairs of number eights, 12 pairs of number nines, 4 pairs of number tens, 1 pair of number elevens.
I have the honor to be, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
DANIEL G. THOMAS,
Captain and Military Storekeeper, U. S. Army.
[Indorsements.]
QUARTERMASTER-GENERAL'S OFFICE,
November 7, 1862.
Respectfully referred to Lieut. Col. G. H. Crosman, deputy quartermaster-general, Philadelphia, for his views on the subject.
By order:
ALEX. J. PERRY,
Lieutenant-Colonel and Assistant Quartermaster.
NOVEMBER 9, 1862.
Respectfully returned to the Quartermaster-General. The tariff of sizes for boots and bootees has been in operation for twenty years, with slight variations, but I have discovered that it does not suit the men of the West and those of the East equally well. In the western departments larger sizes are needed than in the East. The men are generally larger and have larger feet in the West. A change in the proportion of sizes will, therefore, be necessary, so that each section may be accommodated. This has already been done to some extent, but will now be still further changed, so as to conform very nearly to the proportions recommended by the military storekeeper at Washington, who has had the opportunity of verifying it.
G. H. CROSMAN,
Deputy Quartermaster-General.

Brian Baird

[Pvt.Tyler]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Thanks for this interseting information.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Should our clothes all fit?

Should our clothes all fit.....well it would be the first Army...:D