What is the Cutting Edge Today?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Hallo!

"My sense is the only way to push the interpretive edge is to overtly address the issues facing interpreters and think clearly about ways to implement the good interpretive ideas that are being kicked around."
True...
But IMHO, I would maintain that there is a two sided coin here- one, the "site interpretation" side such as say NPS; and then two, the side where we as individuals and messes/companies/batallions/groups/collections/aggregates of individuals "interpret history" for our pards and each other.

Curt

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Ah, Lee and Daryl, I had hoped to hear from you two in particular. The problem really is getting the horse to drink, isn't it. The water is out there, and it is good for him. But he might not like the taste.

Daryl you're right. A class devoted to bridging the scholarship-interp gap would help push the envelope forward. Sounds great. Minting a new class of well-trained Civil War interps every few years would be a fantastic place to start. But for this forum's readership, perhaps we should stay focused on reenactor issues. Online social history discussion? Sure. Where do I sign up? But do you (rhetorical) want to moderate that? We do well enough here to keep a lid on the politics just talking about guns and coats. God help if we threw in theory! As great an idea as that sounds, how many "You say my grandpappy did what?! Why I ought to come up/down there and..." flamewars do you want to put out per week? But I guess that's Civil War generally, though, not just reenactors.

Assuming, like Daryl, that the edge is interpretative, it flat comes down to this. More events can be set up that give people some pretty cool moments. Do we all like those? Yep. But you only learn what its like to sleep out in freezing rain once. I've got a secret, though. the coolest highs and period rushes don't happen in some God-forsaken woods. They happen in libraries. Don't believe me? Go try it sometime. If research -- that is true research, not piddling around on the interweb or digesting the latest issue of Lost Cause Monthly -- doesn't become the next C/P/H/WHAT/HAVE/YOU craze, then folks, there ain't much of an envelope left short of live ammo.

The trick that leaders in this community have to pull, as Hank alluded, is balancing history (and with it "the edge") with what a critical mass of people are comfortable learning and doing. Where is that line drawn? Obviously, answers will vary from person to person, hence the F/.../A paradigm. At which letter do we feel comfortable letting someone interpret? That is something we need to seriously and honestly confront. Which brings me back to my trusty, thirsty mount from earlier. Where is the line where it might just be best to let him die of thirst?

...we are cutting edge for NPS programs, but like you said, be nice to expand it from more than a couple of folks. Also, even with tactics, be nice to see going to ground being used more than it is, also, other things from the accounts, like advance firing, etc, that arent in Hardees or Caseys, but were being used.

By the by, Co. H, if this isn't the biggest hint about what we'll be doing in September I don't know what is. You want envelope? We got a ton of it.

Nice to see your "Thievin Fourth" pic there

"Skillet!" :wink_smil

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

I would maintain that there is a two sided coin here- one, the "site interpretation" side such as say NPS; and then two, the side where we as individuals and messes/companies/batallions/groups/collections/aggregates of individuals "interpret history" for our pards and each other.

Curt,

Excellent point. Take my above as dealing with what happens when the two sides of that coin meet face to face (physics aside). How should site interpreters, or the site itself, present reenactors to the visiting public? Or, more to the point for this discussion, how should reenactors prepare to interpret (particularly to the public, though secondarily to themselves) when at a site?

[Daryl Black]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Curt and Pat,

I think that the coin is certainly two sided. I also tend to dwell on the interpretive side of the coin. That's my interest both as a hobbyist and a professional historian. Not for everyone and I don't advocate it for all. I do, however, think that engaging with the "scholarly" side of living history provides benefits to those on both sides of the coin. How many times have we seen first person scenarios for which there is provided a list of names from a regiment and a short military history of the unit to be portrayed without any meaningful social or cultural context? My sense is that first person would be much better if the participants could contextualize the particulars of their portrayal. Spend the time reading the general treatments of social and cultural history that are available then use that material to deepen your own impression and/or strengthen your ability to talk to the public at a historic site. The Chickamauga interpretive plan that focuses on the many reasons why men joined military organizations is an excellent example of how this can work. And it works in harmony with the material culture approach. Gotta run for now but more later.

[Daryl Black]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Pat,

I'd be willing to take on an online discussion of Civil War historiography. Perhaps it could be done in another format -- participants would have to sign up and the forum/blog would be limited to discussions of the texts "assigned".

[DougCooper]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Good comments from everyone. Curt's answer on another thread that the ultimate was being able to step out of a time machine in 1863 and blend in is right on. For me the cutting edge is just that - we are soldiers, its 100% first person and its simply army routine. BGR and the annual SG picket post is the best it has been for me, so far.

But becoming more important to me over the years is the legacy that the event establishes in years to come. That is all about the preservation of battlefields. When we are long past the days when we don the trappings of our hobby, I have a feeling we will remember saving those fields through our efforts at events like BGR, Mansfield March, Antietam, Hodge March, Glendale, Spotsylvania, Fredericksburg, Marmaduke's, Rich Mountain, Picketts Mill, Bristoe Station, Chancellorsville march and 100 smaller and larger events. There our direct participation often made and will make the difference between successful preservation and another strip mall.

So the cutting edge to me combines the best of the hobby with the greatest of causes.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Phil sure can ask some loaded questions.

What's "cutting edge" to me may not be that to someone else, because they've done it before. I saw some good events listed in this thread so far that, while good, were certainly not cutting edge as I define it.

Cutting edge means something not done before, or done previously only to a limited extent.

I've helped run some events that I might call "cutting edge" at least in certain respects, but others may not view 'em that way. For example, I could suggest that "Winter 1864" is cutting edge, but 1) W64 2008 will be the seventh time it's been held--is it still cutting edge despite how we attempt to keep re-inventing aspects of it? 2) Other folks hold winter quarters events. I believe they are not the same thing being done at W64, but heck, if I don't attend 'em, I don't really know.

The Antietam 2003 Preservation March was the first one I went to (and planned) that is what I tend to refer to as "a mobile living history" in that the participants marched all over the battlefield and did varying types of interpretive programs. Our club has done several mobile living histories for years. That said, even within the past year I've seen some other groups running similar types of events and referring to them as "never done before" or "cutting edge" or similar monickers. And, of course, the ideas for Antietam 2003 were not entirely mine: in large part I adapted bits and pieces I'd seen or experienced at other events, and packaged it into (what was for me) a new type of living history event, so one can argue that the very concepts of A2003 were "borrowed" and thus, possibly, not "cutting edge". However, it sure felt like "cutting edge" to many who were there, but probably not all of 'em. (It was, however, the origin of that scourge of reenacting, "cooking bacon in the dark", a pestilence for which I accept full responsibility.) Among other mobile LHs I've been involved with were Chancellorsville-Wilderness 2004, aspects of Chatham Manor 2005, and Second Bull Run 2006, to name just a few--and those are just ones run by the Columbia Rifles. Other clubs have run other, similar events elsewhere.

Payne's Farm 2005 may have been cutting edge to some, but no aspect of it was brand new--maybe just a couple of the nuances were. Rich Mountain 2006 was fun, but (no offense intended) hardly cutting edge. Both Rich Mountain and Payne's Farm were heavily influenced by prior reenactments such as Pickett's Mill 2001 and many others.

As noble as preservation motives may be, I do not view preservation aspects as making an event "cutting edge".

Next we'll see something advertised as "cutting edge on pristnie ground" to couple two fairly tired sets of advertising language.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Hallo!

"My sense is that first person would be much better if the participants could contextualize the particulars of their portrayal. Spend the time reading the general treatments of social and cultural history that are available then use that material to deepen your own impression and/or strengthen your ability to talk to the public at a historic site".

IMHO, that is perhaps the copper that binds the zinc sandwich together on the modern penny. Or failing that, the edge of the coin between the two sides. ;) :)

My heretical view is that the art, science, or just plain "skill set' of "1st Person Impression" or "persona" IS two sides to the same coin. Meaning, the social history within the culture is the "mental and physical man" in the "Authenticity Triad."
However, all too often, what we create, craft, and use is a decidely narrow "active military" snippet of life that is an artificial construct OUTSIDE of fact that the person we are "portraying" and particularly what we are "presenting" to our pards (and the public where applicable) often/usually fails to take into account that the men were "civilians" and participating members of a society and culture long before puttin' on the Blue Suit (with a nod toward federals here).

However, when it comes to the Visiting Public or the Spectating Public, the nature of the craft needs to be tailored to the different "audience" without necessarily excluding our pards in any great "dummying down for public consumption." "Things need not, IMHO, be dummied down, just "customized" for the goals of the site and the particular historical emphasis or points desired to be made that the public is hoped to take away with them.

One such knot, is the dynamic between site interpretation that is "1st Person" versus that which is "3rd Person" as "1st" does not always work best with all audiences all the time- and can fall flat.
Just as at a past "Outpost" event where a lad asked another lad with whom he had been campaigning with for two years 'Where are you from, and what do you do for a living?"

Curt

[Daryl Black]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Curt,

Exactly. Making the alloy is all important. I think that we can all do a better job at it and I'm serious in my interest in hosting/moderating some sort of continuing online discussion of the scholarly side of things.

As far as dumbing down for the public: the Chickamauga NPS intepretive programs demonstrate to me that you can actually pitch pretty hard and fast to visitors. We've had excellent luck in using individual examples of CS soldiers/regiments to open up discussions about complex soci0-cultural and political issues. And I imagine the same goes for most of those who end up at the hardcore/progressive type events.

[Milliron]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

The bleeding edge to me came years ago at the famous "Dusty-Mauga" event. While this particular event was not "cutting edge" in the sense that we mean here (although it did have its moments, to be sure), I did experience something that was.

I fell in with the AoP and happened to be positioned next to our very own Hairy Nation Boys, whom I did not know. The entire event the members of this mess joked, told stories and ribbed each other good naturedly, like pretty much every other mess does at events. It wasn't until Sunday, after one fellow saw a stray dog at the event, remarked that "it looked just like Headlog's sheep back home", which touched off a chorus of joking about dogs and sheep and how you couldn't tell the difference between Headlog's dogs and his sheep, etc. etc. It was then that I realized that their routine was entirely first-person interpretation, and contained not one 20th century reference, to themselves or to each other. It was utterly seamless. I had marched next to these fellows the entire weekend and never noticed the difference--it was truly amazing.

After the event I spoke with them and they told me that they prepare long in advance for events and practice their Fir-Per on the long ride in from Iowa.

That my friends was cutting edge, at least to me. I have never heard firper interpretation done as well before or since. I've been trying to get there ever since, and I'm still not there. I personally have a great deal of difficulty getting into First Person interpretation, but theirs was uncanny.

[Charles Heath]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

"Cutting edge" is relative to the experiences of the individual reenactor, as well as the collective, but mostly it's the former. Two recent incidents have brought this to mind. The first being a survey of interest about attending a well-publicized mainstream event brought only 3 positive responses from 41 members surveyed. Other than those 3 individuals, the event was just too ho-hum to consider, and most of them had attended at least one mainstream event sometime in the past ten years. Oddly enough, for the same event, at least 2 other groups, were turned off by the idea of something so mundane as an issue of period rations. It's pretty much a given that we aren't all at the same place.

A wise old tea-sipping night monkey once observed there was nothing that hadn't been done before in the CW reenacting hobby. He had a good point; however, a heck of a lot of things aren't done very often, or very well, and the hobby tends to reinvent itself about every five years. The joy, the real joy for some, is seeing those things come alive for people who have yet to experience them, and their wide-eyed wonderment. Odds are these things won't be found at the local encampment and skirmish.

Dare I say it? To get out of the rut one needs to get on the road.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

Some of the stuff that gets my interest in an event anymore are things like,

* "Haven't done that before."
* "Haven't reenacted there before."
* "Haven't reenacted that battle/historical event before."

Then the next part of my personal selection process is sort of along the lines of, "Now, do the folks running it appear to know what they're doing, and are they organized enough to deliver on their promises?"

For the most part, I look for stuff that's sort of "cutting edge" in my own experiences. For example, in 2007 I traveled a pretty fair distance to an event on NPS land that featured opposing forces--I haven't done that before on NPS land, and I hadn't reenacted on that site before, so it was worth the trip.

Certainly, that event wasn't cutting edge in what it was doing; in fact, I'd done the same stuff before, 12 or more years ago, at a mainstream event just 25 minutes from my home. In this case, it was the site and the novelty of opposing forces on the original field on NPS land that attracted me, not whether it was truly "cutting edge".

As Charles posted just above this note, it pretty much all depends on the past experiences of the individual as to whether something is "cutting edge" or something like it.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

OK...
THIS, my friends, sounds to me like it was a cutting edge event: The 1994 Bummers March

32 miles marched
Live rounds issued... and rammed down the pipe!

I would submit that, if this event were repeated this year, it would STILL be considered "cutting edge"... perhaps even by those who did the first one.

This is the kind of thing I'd love to do someday.

[Charles Heath]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

John, posting that link to Scott's AAR has shut down many a thread filled with idle speculation. I'm glad somebody else did the linking this time. See you in September.

[styler]

Re: What is the cutting edge today?

There was some talk on page 2 of this thread about interpretation. I agree that that's a process sorely missing and often misunderstood in our little world. But, like "reenactors," "interpretors" (professional or advocational) compose a broad spectrum, not only in ability but in what they see as their duty to the public. The question of what we are interpreting needs to be asked before we lay "interpretation" out there as a grand goal.