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I initially posted this in the sinks, but this looks like it belongs here.
I spoke with a close friend of mine today in order to get some clarification in this matter. My friend happens to be a senior BATF explosives supervisor with over 40 years of EOD experience. The following comes directly from someone who helped formulate their current position.
All US military ordnance, regardless of whether it is live or inert, is the property of the United States government. How the items were obtained - purchased, found, etc. - is irrelevent. The items remain the property of the government, even if they are found "abandoned" on private property. The law does not consider the age of the items to be relevent, either. This also applies to any devices manufactured, purchased, used, or intended for use by the CONFEDERACY. Because the Confederacy lost the war, all CS weapons, supplies and equipment are considered "spoils of war", and are the property of the US government. While many items are sold to the public as surplus, the US government has never sold or made available surplus explosive devices to the public.
When military ordnance is found, it generally becomes the responsibility of the US military to dispose of it. Unfortunately, this means disposal by counter-charging. They are not concerned with history or collectability.
Possession of ANY explosive device - bombs, grenades, mines, etc. - is a FELONY. Again, the law does not recognize the age of a device when applied. This means that according to the law, a Shenkl shell, WWI Mills grenade, Japanese Knee mortar round, Claymore mine, or a homemade pipe bomb are all considered explosives devices, regardless of their age, rarity or historical significance. In other words, Sam White, as well as his customers, were in violation of Federal law by possessing these devices. Further, the letter of the law would consider that these devices, even after disarming, are STILL explosive devices, because their intended use was such.
However, cooler heads prevail at the BATF. There are some there who recognize that there are devices that have historical and collectible value, and that there is a big difference between Joe the military buff and an al-Qaeda sympathizer or gang member. Therefore, they have adopted the basic position that they aren't going to raid anybody's Civil war collection, kick in doors at antique shops, or go after businessmen like Mr. White, until something happens. Usually that "something" is an explosion resulting in tragedy. When this happens, the likelihood is that any additional devices found on the premises, or associated with the event will be destroyed. In the case of Civil War-era UXO, each item would need to be x-rayed to determine whether or not the were still armed, an expensive and time-consuming process. Also, because of the thickness of the steel used in many CW devices, it is difficult to get a clear x-ray view that can verify whether a device is live or not. Because of this, all items may very well be destroyed, as erring on the side of caution may be the most prudent course of action. Remember, the primary mission of EOD personnel is to eliminate the threat of injury or death posed by UXO. Those in charge simply are not going to allow any additional casualties.
It is not the job EOD personnel and BATF Explosive Enforcement Officers (EEOs) to render safe or disarm devices for anyone's personal collection. No squad is going to place any of their personnel in harm's way for such a thing. Conversely, once they find potentially hazardous items, they also are not going to give them back to the owner. Their job, first and foremost, is to prevent death and injury from these devices. Also, imagine the liability involved if they gave back an explosive device that later killed someone.
So the deal is this: If you possess Civil War-era ordnance used or intended for the use of US or CS forces, it is remains the property of the Federal government. Further, if it is armed, you are in felony possesion of an explosive device. However, as long as nothing happens to draw your attention to the BATF, they aren't going to bother you. Their stance is reactive rather than proactive. But if something DOES happen, rest assured that they are going to recover the government's property and you will not get it back.
Personally, I believe that this current BATF position is the most fair and amicable possible. It allows the collector or historian to obtain, disarm, display or otherwise possess potentially hazardous collectable items at their own risk until something happens. The only downside is the potential risk to others - family members, neighbors, etc., who may be completely unaware of the risks and end up being victims themselves. An important thing to remember is that this is the position of the BATF ONLY; other agencies will most dertainly have different policies.
The bottom line is that nobody needs bombs in their homes. The liability and the potential for disaster simply are not worth it. A fire in the house could be catastrophic not only for the occupants, but for neighbors, passersby and rescue personnel. Also, homeowner's insurance does not cover damages caused by illegal explosives being stored in one's home.
Military explosive devices are designed to kill and maim human beings, and regardless of their age or historical value, are to always be considered dangerous.
Dave
_________
I spoke with a close friend of mine today in order to get some clarification in this matter. My friend happens to be a senior BATF explosives supervisor with over 40 years of EOD experience. The following comes directly from someone who helped formulate their current position.
All US military ordnance, regardless of whether it is live or inert, is the property of the United States government. How the items were obtained - purchased, found, etc. - is irrelevent. The items remain the property of the government, even if they are found "abandoned" on private property. The law does not consider the age of the items to be relevent, either. This also applies to any devices manufactured, purchased, used, or intended for use by the CONFEDERACY. Because the Confederacy lost the war, all CS weapons, supplies and equipment are considered "spoils of war", and are the property of the US government. While many items are sold to the public as surplus, the US government has never sold or made available surplus explosive devices to the public.
When military ordnance is found, it generally becomes the responsibility of the US military to dispose of it. Unfortunately, this means disposal by counter-charging. They are not concerned with history or collectability.
Possession of ANY explosive device - bombs, grenades, mines, etc. - is a FELONY. Again, the law does not recognize the age of a device when applied. This means that according to the law, a Shenkl shell, WWI Mills grenade, Japanese Knee mortar round, Claymore mine, or a homemade pipe bomb are all considered explosives devices, regardless of their age, rarity or historical significance. In other words, Sam White, as well as his customers, were in violation of Federal law by possessing these devices. Further, the letter of the law would consider that these devices, even after disarming, are STILL explosive devices, because their intended use was such.
However, cooler heads prevail at the BATF. There are some there who recognize that there are devices that have historical and collectible value, and that there is a big difference between Joe the military buff and an al-Qaeda sympathizer or gang member. Therefore, they have adopted the basic position that they aren't going to raid anybody's Civil war collection, kick in doors at antique shops, or go after businessmen like Mr. White, until something happens. Usually that "something" is an explosion resulting in tragedy. When this happens, the likelihood is that any additional devices found on the premises, or associated with the event will be destroyed. In the case of Civil War-era UXO, each item would need to be x-rayed to determine whether or not the were still armed, an expensive and time-consuming process. Also, because of the thickness of the steel used in many CW devices, it is difficult to get a clear x-ray view that can verify whether a device is live or not. Because of this, all items may very well be destroyed, as erring on the side of caution may be the most prudent course of action. Remember, the primary mission of EOD personnel is to eliminate the threat of injury or death posed by UXO. Those in charge simply are not going to allow any additional casualties.
It is not the job EOD personnel and BATF Explosive Enforcement Officers (EEOs) to render safe or disarm devices for anyone's personal collection. No squad is going to place any of their personnel in harm's way for such a thing. Conversely, once they find potentially hazardous items, they also are not going to give them back to the owner. Their job, first and foremost, is to prevent death and injury from these devices. Also, imagine the liability involved if they gave back an explosive device that later killed someone.
So the deal is this: If you possess Civil War-era ordnance used or intended for the use of US or CS forces, it is remains the property of the Federal government. Further, if it is armed, you are in felony possesion of an explosive device. However, as long as nothing happens to draw your attention to the BATF, they aren't going to bother you. Their stance is reactive rather than proactive. But if something DOES happen, rest assured that they are going to recover the government's property and you will not get it back.
Personally, I believe that this current BATF position is the most fair and amicable possible. It allows the collector or historian to obtain, disarm, display or otherwise possess potentially hazardous collectable items at their own risk until something happens. The only downside is the potential risk to others - family members, neighbors, etc., who may be completely unaware of the risks and end up being victims themselves. An important thing to remember is that this is the position of the BATF ONLY; other agencies will most dertainly have different policies.
The bottom line is that nobody needs bombs in their homes. The liability and the potential for disaster simply are not worth it. A fire in the house could be catastrophic not only for the occupants, but for neighbors, passersby and rescue personnel. Also, homeowner's insurance does not cover damages caused by illegal explosives being stored in one's home.
Military explosive devices are designed to kill and maim human beings, and regardless of their age or historical value, are to always be considered dangerous.
Dave
_________
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