Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

[Vuhginyuh]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2220154449

This was posted yesterday and lost.
I recall two questions were posted about the shirts. Are they surplus contract shirts and when did the final issue of war-time surplus take place?
One guy appears to be holding (Navy) Colt.

These fellows look like they may have taken a shot or two at some Rebs as well.

Can someone with the know-how please save this in the ebay image file?

[NY Pvt]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Colt Navy so what! The soldier wearing a kepi has what looks to me to be a LeMat in his pants. (I know that doesn't sound good) Does anyone eles see that as well or am I mistaken? He also is holding an Enfield.

I am no handgun expert, but those models that a couple of the others have look like there one of the models used in the 1870's. If this is the case what is a buffalo soldier out west doing with an Enfield at this time.

To save them I just right clicked and then save picture as.
Cool pictures

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Colt Navy so what! The soldier wearing a kepi has what looks to me to be a LeMat in his pants. (I know that doesn't sound good) Does anyone eles see that as well or am I mistaken? He also is holding an Enfield.

I am no handgun expert, but those models that a couple of the others have look like there one of the models used in the 1870's. If this is the case what is a buffalo soldier out west doing with an Enfield at this time.

To save them I just right clicked and then save picture as.
Cool pictures

Looks like an Enfield to me too, I can't think of any other with a sling swivel at the forward band. Could be Schofield Revolver, they had graceful(?) curves to the back strap.

I just looked at it again and the pistol does seem to have the distinctive LeMat loading bar assembly at the frame. The grip appears to be European.

[BigMike]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

I don’t think it’s a LeMat. It looks more like a Smith & Wesson Schofield revolver

[MuddyTrowsers]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

To my eye, the longarm looks like an 1873 "Trapdoor" Springfield. I cannot tell from the photograph if the weapon has the stacking swivel or not, and I obviously cannot see the lock and breech assembly, but my money would be that it is indeed an 1873 (or maybe later model?) Springfield Rifle.

[NY Pvt]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

I think your right. It is a Schofield. If it was a Lemat, then we should be able to see more spots were the cartridges go (can't think of the correct term off my head). But this again brings up the question. This is a 1870's picture. What are they doing with a 3 band enfield rifle musket. I can't imagine this gun was seen a lot in the west. I mean, even the springfields that were modified after the war into trapdoors were not the newest thing on the market.

Peter,

The nosecone looks like it is brass, and then there issue of what looks to be placement of the sling.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Looks like an Enfield to me too, I can't think of any other with a sling swivel at the forward band.
...that and the 1873 Springfield Rifle. I should just edit my original post to make it look like I have a clue.

[JimKindred]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

After looking at the photo and the M1873's I have in the closet I have little doubt that the rifle in the photo is a Trapdoor. Another clue is his web belt which holds 45/70 cartridges for the rifle.

[Johan Steele]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Could it be an Allin Conversion of an Enfield? It does look like an Enfield and not a Trapdoor. Judging from the pistols I'd say 1870's time period and possibly as late as the 1880's. That is a Smith & Wesson, not a LeMat.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Are they surplus contract shirts and when did the final issue of war-time surplus take place?

The US army adopted a gray issue shirt after the war, that was very similar to the wartime contract shirts, but the US army has a policy of issueing obsolete items until they are used up, so it is possible that these soldiers on the plains recieved CW period items as well. It was also common for soldiers to purchase surplus uniforms to save money. There was a body discovered in the 80s at Little Big Horn that was wearing a cut down cw era dress coat.

As far as how long did the US continue to issue CW stocks. There was a case in WW2 of an OSS agent being given 1863 Springfields to arm Burmesse insurgants.

[Michael McComas]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Could it be an Allin Conversion of an Enfield? It does look like an Enfield and not a Trapdoor.

While Allin conversions of Enfields are not inconceivably rare, they are incredibly rare. About like Snider conversions of Springfields. Add in the fact that this is a rifle, not a rifle-musket (or in Enfield parliance, a short rifle), and it would be a gun that would bring big bucks today. However, I have to go with Mr. Kindred, the .45-70 ammo belt gives it away.

But if you are still in doubt, here is a side-by-side comparison of an Enfield short rifle (Barnett of London manufacture) and an 1873 Springfield. The nosecap and front barrel band are set farther back on the Enfield to make way for the sabre bayonet lug on the side of the barrel.



Compare that to the original image:



The barrel is definitely a smallbore rifle.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

The wierd thing is, they are cavalry and dont have carbines.

[MuddyTrowsers]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

The wierd thing is, they are cavalry and dont have carbines.

I also thought it was strange that these cavalrymen would have a rifle, no matter what kind it is. Is it possible that it is nothing more than a photographer's prop?

[JimKindred]

Re: Post-war image of Buffalo Soldiers

Even in today's army you may not have what you are authorized by the TOE, you take what is issued to you and do the best you can. Same then same now.