NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

[garyjd]

Do these folks have any clue as to what they are doing? Should we have the same reaction we do when a monument is vandalized? If not why don't they just start removing all those boulders that just clutter up the place (sarcasm). ~Gary

http://www.gettysburgdaily.com/

[Dignann]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

Hmmm....passing judgement is always so easy. I wonder if the folks who maintain that blog have provided their documentation of "witness" trees to the NPS. If the blogger fails to share his info with the NPS, meaning alerting them to the aged trees, complete with documentation, than he should be careful about his accusations.

My 2 cents.

Eric

[NYCivilWar]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

I agree with Eric. It is always so easy to blame the NPS, seems to be an easy scapegoat. For those of you who don't know, the NPS is not the one physically cutting the trees. The felling of the trees has been contracted out, and the crew cutting the trees could probably care less if it is a witness tree or not. Secondly, I highly doubt the staff at Gettysburg has the time or the resources, to roam every woodlot on the battlefield to find witness trees. The historians who are in charge of the research for the tree cuttings have put thousands upon thousands of hours in researching primary materials to document the areas that should be cut and the areas that shouldn't. So its either roaming the woodlots or going through primary sources, there just isn't time for both. Here's where volunteers come in, such as the folks who run this Gettysburg blog. If people are so concerned about witness trees being cut why don't they be the ones to roam the battlefield? They could then notify the NPS and these trees scould stop being cut. Lastly, if these trees were left uncut would they really help us understand the battle any more than if they were cut? I'm not saying that I approve of what happened, or that seeing these trees wouldn't be cool, but if people are so concerned, people who obviously have time to criticize the NPS so much, why not do something to help?

-Kyle M. Stetz

[jfeagin]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

First, please do not take as a personal attack on any of the posters, I do not doubt your loyalty to preservation or love of accurate history.

Actually, I am surprised by some of the responses here. These trees aren't pieces of wood. They are LIVING things, a link to the past. They felt the concussion of the shells, maybe even took a ball. The same eyes that saw the horrors of the battle beheld these very same trees, maybe even rested under one as they died... These trees are, to my eyes, more a apart of the battlefield than any of the monuments., they are in themselves monuments.

"Do these folks have any clue as to what they are doing?"

If they are like any other government organization that I have worked for the answer is yes but they have become lax. They work on a "check the box off and follow orders" mindset. Yes they are contractors cutting but there should be some sort of supervision. I am not a forestry expert but I imagine there is some way you can tell by the circumference of the trunk the age of a tree, not by just counting the rings. There should be an expert of such things supervising, especially when cutting in an old growth area.

Frankly, government organizations only work in a crisis mode so nothing gets done unless a crisis is created. By living in the area I can tell you that most people around here are not pleased with the cutting (I BTW favor it). If the local news sources get news of this, they can cause a lot of pressure on local government (congressmen, etc.) officials to be more careful.

"Lastly, if these trees were left uncut would they really help us understand the battle any more than if they were cut? I'm not saying that I approve of what happened, or that seeing these trees wouldn't be cool, but if people are so concerned, people who obviously have time to criticize the NPS so much, why not do something to help?"

I understand what you are saying but disagree a bit. By your rationalization, I can say the same thing about many other battlefields. "Will building the Walmart by the wilderness battle field really impede our understanding the battle? Again, original battlefield witnesses have been killed, obviously by accident. They are unique things, they wont be coming back. I guess you could make things out of them and sell them to raise preservation funds but knowing how the government works... they'll probably end up as 2x4s in some house.

I do think that the blogger should inform the NPS supervisors of this and maybe the local news as well. Just to keep some pressure up.

I don't think the NPS is doing this on purpose but I do think that they need to know about it and take action to stop it. They obviously should be supervising the cutting contractors more. BTW, I do volunteer at G'burg (although rarely now that I am overseas on US contract work) lest I am accused of just be complaining and not doing anything...

[garyjd]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

Geez guys, Given the importance of Gettysburg as a National Historic site I would think there would be a little more attention to detail. A Licensed Battlefield guide maintains the Gettysburg Daily Blog. I'm sure he's more privy to the goings on at the park than we are. If the NPS does not have the ability to provide any supervision while this is being done than I'd rather things be left alone. If you look at older threads I'm sure you also see some swell pictures of fresh blacktop poured up against the sides of flank markers, boulders, and trees when they were resurfacing the roads on the field. I guess there was no one available to watch over those activities either. Maybe I'll just drive down from Western PA every day to babysit the contractors. This is important work they're doing here, It would be nice to see a little more oversight. ~Gary

[cw1970]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

I agree with Eric. It is always so easy to blame the NPS, seems to be an easy scapegoat. For those of you who don't know, the NPS is not the one physically cutting the trees. The felling of the trees has been contracted out, and the crew cutting the trees could probably care less if it is a witness tree or not. Secondly, I highly doubt the staff at Gettysburg has the time or the resources, to roam every woodlot on the battlefield to find witness trees. The historians who are in charge of the research for the tree cuttings have put thousands upon thousands of hours in researching primary materials to document the areas that should be cut and the areas that shouldn't. So its either roaming the woodlots or going through primary sources, there just isn't time for both. Here's where volunteers come in, such as the folks who run this Gettysburg blog. If people are so concerned about witness trees being cut why don't they be the ones to roam the battlefield? They could then notify the NPS and these trees scould stop being cut. Lastly, if these trees were left uncut would they really help us understand the battle any more than if they were cut? I'm not saying that I approve of what happened, or that seeing these trees wouldn't be cool, but if people are so concerned, people who obviously have time to criticize the NPS so much, why not do something to help?

-Kyle M. Stetz

If you'd read the past posts from the Gettysburg Daily, you would remember that the NPS has already been out to the location and claimed that they screwed up and need to reevaluate what they're doing. They are more than aware, the problem is that no one is telling anyone else, like us, except places like the Gettysburg Daily. Which to me is sad, and a reason to want folks to contact the park about this issue, not claim that they're sure the park must no what they're doing and probably just need a helping hand!

If anything, it should be our burden as readers to contact local news places to put more pressure on the park to have some oversight, rather than asking volunteers to roam the field doing a job that frankly, the park and its volunteers (of which they do have a wonderful program for) can/should be responsible before they interface with forestry academics and hire people with big saws to start cutting on their land.

[MD_Independent]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

Gentlemen,
As a professional logger, I've always felt a special interest in tree-removal projects on our battlefields. The photo's don't give us enough information to jump to any conclusions regarding these trees. Trees don't live forever, and, if they begin to show signs of decay, they should be removed once they become a liability to the property owner. Just as at events, safety should outweight history every time.
We can't jump to conclusions regarding why they are being removed. In viewing some of the pic's, I see unmistakable signs of decay, but, again, conclusions cannot be reached without a better view. Do you see some of the logs with holes in the middle? That is a dead tree. Extremely dangerous. Needs to come down now safely or let it fall randomly, hopefully not killing someone. Period. Some of the stumps look to be in the first stages of decay. Again, very dangerous. Why risk it when the tree will come down naturally in a short time?
Gentlemen, judging by the small diameter of these logs and the number of rings counted, I would say some would be nice veneer logs. They would probably make some gorgeous furniture, by the way. In fact, I'm willing to bet they will be furniture. White oak veneers bring big bucks, and only a complete moron would throw them into common building material. If I lived closer to G-burg, I would definately stop by and chat with the logging crews. At least I could find out where the logs were going and where I could purchase the lumber from said logs. The NPS probably doesn't care where the logs go once they're taken off the property, but the loggers care, I'm sure. This could be an excellent opportunity to raise money for preservation through some good old fashioned hands-on work, but noone wants to think of that. Instead, they would rather criticize something they know nothing about, and let the chance slip by.
If someone in the area knows the name of the logging company or companies involved in this project, please let me know. I would love to contact them and try to purchase some of these logs or the lumber. Thanks.
Incidentally, I love the 'Blue dot of Death' remark. Shows me what level of professionalism I should expect from the Gettysburg Daily whatever.
Bill Birney
CR's

[cw1970]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

Gentlemen,
We can't jump to conclusions regarding why they are being removed.
CR's

"The National Park Service is following directions on the proper way to thin trees from experts at Pennsylvania State University. They are cutting down one out of every four trees this time, and they are to come back and cut down 63% during the next round."

Is it really so difficult to read things before you post? No one is jumping to any conclusions. The park has stated why they're doing it and the park has also stated that they've made a mistake. I even spoke to one of the NPS historians yesterday (I worked for the park in the 90s and now live in Hanover) and he's a bit broken up about the whole thing.

[BLUnderwood]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

cw1970,

Just a friendly reminder:
RULE 1: SIGN your FULL NAME to EVERY post.

[Cpl.Sharp]

Re: NPS cuts down three more EYEWITNESS TREES at Gettysburg

All I can say is , if it was a tree at Chickamauga or Shiloh nobody would have a dern thing to say about it. And thats a fact.

Matt Sharp
48th Alabama