UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

[chadwick]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I wish they would take professional photographs of the collection and publish them in a book. That would be a great way to raise money! Much better than the UDC Christmas ornaments they were trying to sell in July.

I suggested the idea of a book as a way to raise funds and was told that a book with images of the collection would encourage theft.

[CSchneider]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I suggested the idea of a book as a way to raise funds and was told that a book with images of the collection would encourage theft.

Or it could expose and highlight the collection and put the museum on the map, like The Mϋtter Museum did for, well, the Mϋtter.

-Craig Schneider

[OldKingCrow]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

As far as donations, I can tell you that the particular individual who I spoke with Saturday has turned away numerous offers over the past two decades for financial assistance from individuals and has refused any preservation help from other museums in the state. After speaking with a person close to the situation, it appears that the “director” believes that any outside assistance would lead to a loss of their collection or at the least a loss of their control of the items.

There is no doubt that power and ego are a huge part of the problem here. One person surrounded by her handpicked minions has managed to block any and all efforts made to improve the situation of the collection.

It is time for a changing of the guard.

Have you tried seeing their perceived risk of loss of control through their eyes and address / mitigate those concerns as legitimate ? My experience with UDC matrons suggests to me that you are faced with ingrained, institutionalized concerns and you might find it to be more of a majority, systemic view than that of just their leader.

Perhaps don’t start off by drawing and posting on the internets your own preconceived notions as to her / their motivation and hold off on assigning the derogatory motivations of "power and ego" to it even though it is more than likely part of it as well. I might guess their experience reveals to them a hostile environ, attitude and a confrontation at every turn for all things CS / UDC / SCV (right, wrong or indifferent) not only in SC but across the Southland.

Are you a native Charlestonian or Carolinian, CS Son ?....the older generation, often founding family, Charleston society scene can be a hard nut to crack for outsiders.

Good luck....... the collection could sure use it.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[NYCivilWar]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Well apparently Time Life was given permission to photograph some artifacts because the winter balaclava in Confederate Echoes of Glory is from the UDC Museum in Charleston. I recognized it the minute I saw it. I think a few other items in Echoes are from the museum as well, so the "staff" must be selective as to who they allow to photograph their objects...

[FloridaConscript]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

neill rose is the only person to my knowledge who has any whisper of "pull" with these ladies. I have no idea how the echoes pictures were made, but EOG has been out for dang near 20 years now. The fact that the Charleston UDC museum will not work with the Confederate Relic Room here in columbia speaks volumes to their "ego issues" in my book. the crying shame of it is, the history that they are charged with preserving and protecting is rotting and disappearing before our (and their) eyes and they are not even interested in collecting money under for the "idea" of preservation. damn near criminal.

[chadwick]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Have you tried seeing their perceived risk of loss of control through their eyes and address / mitigate those concerns as legitimate ? My experience with UDC matrons suggests to me that you are faced with ingrained, institutionalized concerns and you might find it to be more of a majority, systemic view than that of just their leader.

Perhaps don’t start off by drawing and posting on the internets your own preconceived notions as to her / their motivation and hold off on assigning the derogatory motivations of "power and ego" to it even though it is more than likely part of it as well. I might guess their experience reveals to them a hostile environ, attitude and a confrontation at every turn for all things CS / UDC / SCV (right, wrong or indifferent) not only in SC but across the Southland.

Are you a native Charlestonian or Carolinian, CS Son ?....the older generation, often founding family, Charleston society scene can be a hard nut to crack for outsiders.

Good luck....... the collection could sure use it.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

I certainly understand their concern that some outsider will come in and take over or take away their collection, and I am sure that plays into the defensive attitude expressed by the director of the museum. However in an attempt to alleviate their concern about the loss of their collection to outsiders, an effort was made several years ago by a small minority of concerned UDC members within the Charleston camp to improve the situation of the collection. These members were ignored and given the same reasoning that the collection was already perfectly protected.


Furthermore, I certainly understand that this is not just a one person problem; however, this one person carries a great deal of weight within the group both locally and nationally and therefore has managed to set the policy for the museum for the past five decades.


The postings on this forum of my “preconceived notions” are not based on my previous meetings with this individual alone. Instead my postings have been shaped through conversions with numerous professionals within the historical and preservation community who have dealt with her over the years. This list includes several leaders within the UDC itself both locally and nationally who have had a long relationship with the individual in question.

And finally, yes, I am from God’s country. I am a native son and descendant of at least 34 Confederate soldiers from N.C. and S.C.. My family is from the Old Village of Mount Pleasant and I was raised in the lowcountry. I attended the College of Charleston for four years and spent four more years in medical school here in the Holy City. I have been living downtown Charleston for the majority of my life and know all to well how the city works. I deal with the attitudes of the Charleston elite society on a daily basis both within my Geriatric practice and within my church. That is why I would love to deal with this problem from the inside. I would love to allow the ladies in the local UDC to fix the problems through there own initiative, but it appears that that will not occur anytime soon. I for one am tired of waiting, and if it takes me coming onto this forum to express my concern and to increase awareness to the preservation community then so be it.

[chadwick]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

neill rose is the only person to my knowledge who has any whisper of "pull" with these ladies. I have no idea how the echoes pictures were made, but EOG has been out for dang near 20 years now. The fact that the Charleston UDC museum will not work with the Confederate Relic Room here in columbia speaks volumes to their "ego issues" in my book. the crying shame of it is, the history that they are charged with preserving and protecting is rotting and disappearing before our (and their) eyes and they are not even interested in collecting money under for the "idea" of preservation. damn near criminal.

Bryant,
Others besides Neill have been allowed to handle and photograph the collection in the past but you are correct that he has by far the best relationship with the director of the museum. However, he too has failed to convince her of the danger faced by the collection in its current state. It has not been from lack of trying I assure you. He has attempted to inform them of the value of their collection and the best options for preserving and displaying the items. I applaud him for his work and I know that he will be instrumental in saving this collection.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Doc it sounds like you're hoeing the right row....and I see you know what I mean in cracking the Charlestonian social circles. That your motives are foremost the preservation of CS material culture and not one-upping or showing the UDC in a bad light is right on. I am no way defending or supporting the UDC mind youns, though they are maligned, even by many here and I don't always agree with their interp of the historical record, the ladies I have been and taken my family around have been honorable Southron women and I have not witnessed the type of things often attributed to them by association.

I am just a hayseed. But having been down the road of an intimate realtionship within the UDC poli-matriarchy you aint gwine to win if any sense of slight to the UDC is even remotely perceived. That means one may have to keep his cracker crusher shut about the UDC interpretation of the historical record, causation and all things "Late Unpleasantness"... again right, wrong or indifferent. She / they will have to be molded into the genesis of the idea and all the credit will have to be given to them to make this happen. They will want design control and to direct the avenues for which such a plan is released publically. If those constraints are doable and the motivation to preserve these relics is worth it and still there you can certainly whoop em' by jine'ing them.

Twer' it me...I might get an idea of what was needed in terms of self-contained, free standing museum displays to adequately house and truly preserve that collection. Self-contained in that they need no additional construction or alterations to the underlying historic structure and are simply "furniture or cabinetry" for permitting purposes..thus avoiding the trigger of authority oversight. Do an informal and unobtrusive, secret squirrel, site survey. Then I would flip RL Lamoreaux and CJ Roberts a PM (both members here and executives of a newly constructed, state of the art, first rate museum) for some possible reputable vendors of these type of displays and reach out for some idea of the costing FOB to Charleston. Armed with that info I would have a better projection of the required funding. If I felt I could crack that funding nut with ease I am in a better place to influence the UDC and conceive a way to reel in their involvement, leadership and then give them credit. Stepping out of the limelight and making unmotivated folks succesful is a hard pill for most folks to swaller.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[chadwick]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I would flip RL Lamoreaux and CJ Roberts a PM (both members here and executives of a newly constructed, state of the art, first rate museum) for some possible reputable vendors of these type of displays and reach out for some idea of the costing FOB to Charleston. Armed with that info I would have a better projection of the required funding. If I felt I could crack that funding nut with ease I am in a better place to influence the UDC and conceive a way to reel in their involvement, leadership and then give them credit. Stepping out of the limelight and making unmotivated folks succesful is a hard pill for most folks to swaller. Tampa, Florida

Thanks for your thoughts and perspective on the situation.
I also appreciate your suggestion to contact the two museum executives. I have sent off a PM to them and look forward to hearing what they recommend.

[chadwick]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I hope that some good will come from the conversations that have occurred today. I was able to have another nice phone call with the UDC national president who offered her support to the project. Unfortunately she cannot offer much more than her name and title to the effort as we learned that the collection indeed belongs solely to the Charleston UDC chapter. However, she was able to give me some encouraging news that I hope may help move this forward.

A board of five Charleston UDC members does exist and they meet on a quarterly basis. The president of the board is, you guessed it, the same director of the museum that we have dealt with in the past. The good news is that I was able to contact another board member who happens to also be a Charleston UDC past president.

This lady was receptive to my concerns and expressed her own fears for the collection. She also pointed out that offers for financial assistance have been made to the board in the past and were turned down. The reason given was again that the collection was already protected and that the building was temperature controlled. She also said that one member of the UDC had applied for a federal grant to help protect the documents within the collection, but that too was not carried through.

After pleading my case and requesting the opportunity to address the board, she agreed to take my request to the board and said that she would get back to me after their next meeting.

If the chance does present itself, I do not plan to address the board myself as I feel that there are others who could do a much better job. One such person would be Neill Rose who has a wonderful knowledge of the collection and already has a working relationship with the director. Neill has graciously agreed to speak on our behalf. Now we just have to hope that the board will hear our case.

In the meantime I hope that we can set up some meetings with state and city officials who may be able to help with funding.

[Auld Pelty]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.
Originally Posted by Auld Pelty
I suggest that you try to establish a dialogue with another of the UDC women and use diplomacy skills to offer some assistance. In other words, try working around the bitter old woman within her chapter. The UDC is a wonderful organization and there are very likely some ladies who do not care for this woman's gate keeping attitude. Like you, they may be hoping for an opportunity to improve the museum conditions. Probably, they have some politics that make mundane activities like organizing a monthly meeting painful.

I know that there are some goodhearted members of the UDC and I know that some of the younger members tried to help when a push was made back in the 90’s to improve the preservation of the items within the collection, but they were shouted down or ignored by the older established members.

The current director made it very clear that it has been her way for the past 52 years and I expect it will remain that way until she moves on or passes away.
Scott Chadwick Evans
Charleston, S.C.
(:------------

[Loudoun Lady]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

As a former small museum director, I have been following this thread with interest. One aspect that resonated with me is that a long-term resident of Charleston, had heard of the conditions 'for many years', but recently witnessed them for the first time. Please, living historians, take the time to visit your local museums and historic sites and support them however you can. In this economy, most are facing severe cutbacks in their operating funds, and the contribution of your interest, time, expertise, talent or treasure can help these fragile institutions keep their doors open -- and continue to care for their irreplaceable collections.

[chadwick]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

As a former small museum director, I have been following this thread with interest. One aspect that resonated with me is that a long-term resident of Charleston, had heard of the conditions 'for many years', but recently witnessed them for the first time.

I never said that it was the “first time” that I had seen the collection. In fact I remember visiting it years ago when it sat in boxes in the back classroom of the current director’s daycare center. This first encounter years ago initiated an attempt by several concerned members of the community to see the collection displayed properly and protected. These attempts unfortunately failed.

Several years later I visited the collection again in its current location and felt total disgust at the appearance of the items. I suppose I convinced myself then that we had tried and failed once before and that no further efforts would be successful. I know that is a weak excuse and I feel ashamed for not speaking up when I had the chance.

I am also sorry that I did not go back until recently to check on the situation but I think that a part of me did not want to see it. It makes me physically ill to go into the current museum.

[Brandon]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I have visited the museum myself a several years ago, and even then as a young historian I knew the way they were handling the collection was not right. What I do not understand since the subject of UDC funds came up is where does all of their money go? If I remember correctly when I visited the museum was not based of off donations upon entry rather than something like a $9 admission. I hope something is done about this situation and if you need any help at all feel free to contact me at bkylehand@yahoo.com. And yes I had my own run in with this old lady when I asked her about an object within the collection.

[SCTiger]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I heard a different version of this story. Sounds like a one sided, personal attack on someone that isn't here, but I will print it out, take it to June and get the other story for you this week. The way I heard it, you were anything but polite.

Also the bulk of Charlestonians are good people and are very tolerable. I have been invited and done many good things at various venues in Charleston, it's not a hard town to penetrate if you love history, matter of fact they welcome the help. Thanks for making sure that we reenactors will never gain access to a valuable museum.