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Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

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  • Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

    Because golf courses are so rare....


    From the
    Williamson County Review Appeal
    Thursday, May 13, 2004
    http://reviewappeal.midsouthnews.com...iewStory=21759 (Accessed 13 May, 2004)

    Some country club members oppose battlefield restoration

    By CLINT CONFEHR / Review Appeal Senior Staff Reporter

    Members of the Country Club of Franklin told city leaders Tuesday they oppose a city plan for purchase of their golf course as part of a plan for restoration of the eastern flank of the Civil War battlefield.

    “We don’t think the real interest is preservation of battlefield,” group spokesman Mike Benton, 1217 Buckingham Circle, said during the city board’s period for public comment. “We think it’s the preservation of land in front of Carnton (Plantation).”

    Rod Heller of Washington, D.C., bought the golf course for $5 million from a developer who allowed it to remain a golf course until prospects arose. The city is planning to sell $10 million in bonds with part of it set aside to help preservationists restore part of the battlefield. A descendant of the McGavock family which built Carnton, Heller is former chairman of the national Civil War Trust. Carnton is operated by the Historic Carnton Association.

    “If Heller wants to do this with his money or with private money, that’s one thing,” Benton said. “When you talk about using public money, it changes.”

    Benton pointed to a copy of an 1864 map from the Library of Congress and said the battlefield wasn’t as close to Carnton to make a battlefield park.

    Robert Hicks, a past Carnton Association president, disagreed and read a statement on the preservation of the eastern flank provided by Ed Bearss, retired chief historian for the National Park Service.

    “The ground embraced by the Country Club of Franklin played a crucial role in the Battle of Franklin,” Hicks read to the mayor and aldermen in reply to Benton. “It is one of the very few large pieces of the battlefield ... that retains the integrity of the time and place of its moment in American history.”

    It’s wrong to say “for reasons of our leisure and our greed we have deemed this area of the battlefield to be less hallowed — less sacred” than better publicized combat along Columbia Avenue, Hicks read for Bearss.

    Bill Lee, 316 Applecross Drive, another spokesman for the country club members, said preserving the golf course would maintain open space, a goal stated by community leaders.

    Hicks said visitors looking for the Franklin battlefield are usually directed to historic places such as Carnton Plantation, the Carter House and Winstead Hill since no battlefield park exists here and restoring the eastern flank would enhance heritage tourism.

    More than 300 families will pay a “social cost” if the Country Club of Franklin loses its course and the city will lose property and sales tax revenue generated by the course, Benton said. Furthermore, people employed by the club will lose their jobs.

    To continue the discussion, members of the Country Club of Franklin invited Mayor Tom Miller, the aldermen and all interested parties to the clubhouse at 8:30 p.m. Thursday.

    Franklin already owns land for parks that haven’t been developed, said Lee, citing the old boot factory on Margin Street and the planned Bicentennial Park nearby.

    “Let’s finish what we have started before we tackle more projects that we won’t be able to finish,” he said.


    Senior Staff Reporter Clint Confehr can be contacted at clint@reviewappeal.com.
    Matthew Rector

  • #2
    Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

    What's this I keep hearing about landowner's rights????

    Go to the movies................
    Mike "Dusty" Chapman

    Member: CWT, CVBT, NTHP, MOC, KBA, Stonewall Jackson House, Mosby Heritage Foundation

    "I would have posted this on the preservation folder, but nobody reads that!" - Christopher Daley

    The AC was not started with the beginner in mind. - Jim Kindred

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

      Boo hoo,the rich lose there golf course.They worship the almighty dollar.Rich,you gotta "love" them.
      Cullen Smith
      Cullen Smith
      South Union Guard

      "Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake"~W.C. Fields

      "When I drink whiskey, I drink whiskey; and when I drink water, I drink water."~Michaleen Flynn [I]The Quiet Man[/I]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

        Not a real intrest in battlefield preservation? Is this guy joking? If that's the case let's put up a miniture golf course over where the trade towers stood! Cpl Dan Morgan 10thVA(IVR)

        Comment


        • #5
          Country Club Crowd

          Folks,

          When the country clubers get involved you can all but hang it up. You can darn well bet that some under the table money will be passed if it hasn't already to see that the "vote" goes their way. I would imagine the very people who will see how this turns out are country clubers themselves.

          The population of Franklin has a large percentage of people who moved there for the "experience" but it will be their own attitude that will ruin it. They could give a crap less about what happened last week let alone what happened in 1864.

          Oh, in case anyone is wondering, yes, I have an extremely bad attitude toward country clubs.
          Last edited by JimKindred; 05-13-2004, 01:37 PM.
          Jim Kindred

          Comment


          • #6
            From the Nashville paper......

            FRANKLIN — County Club of Franklin members have launched an attack on the plan of a group of Civil War preservationists to turn their golf course into a battlefield park.

            A throng of more than 50 club members converged on City Hall Tuesday night during Franklin's Board of Mayor and Aldermen meeting, criticizing city leaders for supporting a plan to restore the golf course adjacent to Carnton Plantation to its antebellum appearance.

            They said little, if any, actual fighting occurred on the 108-acre golf club property during the Battle of Franklin. They said the 36-year-old country club provides tax revenue for the city, jobs for residents and a social and recreational outlet for more than 350 families.

            ''Any alderman who votes for (the purchase of the country club) can be assured 350 families and their friends will campaign against them,'' club member Jan Trischman told the board.

            Last month the board approved a resolution declaring the city's intent to borrow $10 million to purchase and preserve ''green space.'' Aldermen said the money could be used to buy Harlinsdale Farm and the country club.

            Franklin Mayor Tom Miller issued a challenge to the community and preservationists, saying the city could fund half of the country club's purchase if someone else comes up with the other $2.5 million.

            ''The city is very much interested in acquiring battlefield property for protection from development,'' Miller said yesterday. ''The only piece of property for sale that we are aware of is the country club.''

            Rod Heller — a descendant of the McGavock family, which at one time owned the Carnton Plantation — purchased the country club last year for $5 million. He said he bought the land to protect it from being turned into a housing development. Country club members had 10 days to come up with $5 million to buy the property themselves but didn't.

            Heller has indicated he would sell the property to the city or a preservation group for $5 million. A stipulation on the sale would be that the land has to be preserved and turned into a battlefield park.

            A group of preservationists and community leaders who call themselves the Coalition for Preservation of Historic Open Space want to see the golf course restored to the way it looked in the 1860s. Coalition member Robert Hicks said he can empathize with the club members, but he wants to see the property become a battlefield park. Hicks said the group approached Heller when they learned a developer was planning to buy the property and build more than 54 homes.

            ''It was going to happen,'' Hicks said.

            He read the board a letter written by Ed Bearss, chief historian of the National Park Service, which stated, ''The ground embraced by the County Club of Franklin played a crucial role in the Battle of Franklin. It was across this very land that A. P. Stewart's Corps advanced from the south and east toward the Union lines, all the time receiving enemy fire as they charged.''

            Mike Benton, a country club member, pulled out an 1864 map showing forts, hospitals and battle locations. He pointed out that most of the golf course was off the map.

            ''We don't think the real issue is about preservation of battlefield, but preservation of land in front of Carnton Plantation,'' Benton said. ''They want to turn this into pastoral land between two subdivisions. It shouldn't have trench works or stone walls because none of that was ever here. There was no real significant action here.''

            Miller said there ''undoubtedly was significant activity there,'' but he wasn't sure if any actual fighting took place on the golf course. Alderman Ernie Bacon said he is seeking clarification on where fighting actually took place.

            Club members said they didn't think it was right to use public money to fulfill Heller's request. Bill Lee said the $2.5 million could be better spent developing property the city already owns into parks. Miller said there is $750,000 allocated to construct a bicentennial park, which the city broke ground on in 1999. Aldermen haven't identified funds to complete construction of Liberty Park, nor to develop the Durango Boot factory property and junkyard the city owns on North Margin Street.

            Club members Bob and Deborah Ferris said they moved into their house in the Heath Place subdivision near the golf course three days before it was announced that Heller was buying the country club. They see no reason to tear the clubhouse down and turn the golf course into a battlefield park.

            ''I'm sure Civil War soldiers camped in my back yard too,'' Bob Ferris said. ''Are they coming after it next?''

            Do these people know how STUPID they sound in the paper???:baring_te
            Mike "Dusty" Chapman

            Member: CWT, CVBT, NTHP, MOC, KBA, Stonewall Jackson House, Mosby Heritage Foundation

            "I would have posted this on the preservation folder, but nobody reads that!" - Christopher Daley

            The AC was not started with the beginner in mind. - Jim Kindred

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

              Dusty,

              You are dealing with people who don't care and never will care about anything other than their little past time of playing pasture pool. You will have to visit Franklin and spend some time there, then you will understand the mind set you are going to have to deal with.

              I used to like Franklin a great deal but it has changed greatly in the past twenty years. It is rapidly losing the small town charm that it used to have.
              Jim Kindred

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                Seems to me that these Cry Baby Country Clubbers are going to go to any extent, moral or immoral to preserve something that they themselves couldn't save in the first place. There are hundreds of golf courses, there are millions of acres of open spce where they can play their game. There is only one Franklin! Whatever it takes. It must be saved and restored.
                Barry Dusel

                In memory: Wm. Stanley, 6th PA Cav. Ernst C. Braun, 9th PA. Cav. John E. Brown & Edwin C. Brown, 23rd PVI

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                  My attempt at maintaining a calm demeanor evaporates like morning mist when I think about that golf course, and those poor duffers scooting around in their carts, crossing the same ground as my great grandfather crossed back in '64. I wonder what he would say about there being no battle fought on that course. He probably could have had a place for their clubs to be inserted. Save Franklin? Yes, and ourselves also.
                  Tom Yearby
                  Texas Ground Hornets

                  "I'd rather shoot a man than a snake." Robert Stumbling Bear

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                    ''I'm sure Civil War soldiers camped in my back yard too,'' Bob Ferris said. ''Are they coming after it next?''


                    YES


                    They didnt just "camp" in Frankilin bub, they died in Frankilin.
                    Robert Johnson

                    "Them fellers out thar you ar goin up against, ain't none of the blue-bellied, white-livered Yanks and sassidge-eatin'forrin' hirelin's you have in Virginny that run atthe snap of a cap - they're Western fellers, an' they'll mighty quick give you a bellyful o' fightin."



                    In memory of: William Garry Co.H 5th USCC KIA 10/2/64 Saltville VA.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                      I really have no sympathy for snobby country club brats. Saving part of a battlefield is far more important than saving them a commute to a golf course.

                      Kimberly Schwatka
                      Kimberly Schwatka
                      Independent Mess

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                        While attending a L/H at Carnton many years ago the guide mentioned that 16 wagon loads of amputated limbs were hauled off and buried on the property somewhere and pointed in the general direction of the golf course. The location of the burial pit was never disclosed and as far as I know has never been found. I don't guess it would matter to the golfers to know what may be under the fairways.
                        Marlin Teat
                        [I]“The initial or easy tendency in looking at history is to see it through hindsight. In doing that, we remove the fact that living historical actors at that time…didn’t yet know what was going to happen. We cannot understand the decisions they made unless we understand how they perceived the world they were living in and the choices they were facing.”[/I]-Christopher Browning

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                          Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,
                          As a snobby country-club brat, I reenact to help others and myself understand what these brave boys in grey and blue suffered to protect the rights of themselves and others. Today we enjoy these rights, one of which being personal and real property rights. Having lived 27 years in Virginia, I have come to realize that just about our entire state could arguably be preserved. But what would that avail? A dictatorship by the have-nots, who would lose their jobs and means of subsistance. This vilification of a sector of society because they oppose one prong of our mission is counter-productive. Should the civil war preservation community choose to alienate the wealthy instead of engage them in friendly cooperation, they have that choice. But I disagree, as the "country-clubbers" have loads of disposable income and can be quite generous with it if won over. And one wins more flies with honey than vinegar. Being confrontational will not help the situation. Furthermore, money need not pass under the table a la Huey Long, as these people probably are the local council and planning commission.

                          Dave Eggleston
                          Last edited by dave81276; 05-14-2004, 07:27 AM.
                          Dave Eggleston

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                            "....as these people probably are the local council and planning commission."

                            The above comment pretty much says it all. The power in your community is not at the voting booth but with the membership of these organizations in many cases. Country clubs are in nearly all cases racist; they promote exclusiveness at the expense of the local community, and generally have no interests in helping anyone but themselves and if they do it is only to make themselves feel better. I do not believe you will find outside of the membership many people who find any thing positive about them.

                            With regards to alienating the wealthy, I know many wealthy individuals that despise these organizations as much as I do and for many of the same reasons. I could be a member of a country club if I so desired but I chose not to be. It is because of a country club's attitude toward maintaining its property that my wife is dead, I had a dislike for them before that but now I have an absolute hatred for them.
                            Jim Kindred

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

                              Originally posted by dave81276
                              Today we enjoy these rights, one of which being personal and real property rights.
                              Dave, you have made the point of many preservation opponents in the above statement. Landowners who want to develop historic land frequently argue that they have the right to do what they want with their property.

                              Well, in this case, the landowner, Mr. Heller, should have the right to do with HIS land what he chooses. He bought the land. According to the Nashville paper article, the members had 10 days to purchase the land but couldn't/didn't.

                              They had their chance. If they don't like the way the city plans to pay for the land, don't buy the bonds. It is a free country..........
                              Mike "Dusty" Chapman

                              Member: CWT, CVBT, NTHP, MOC, KBA, Stonewall Jackson House, Mosby Heritage Foundation

                              "I would have posted this on the preservation folder, but nobody reads that!" - Christopher Daley

                              The AC was not started with the beginner in mind. - Jim Kindred

                              Comment

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