Electrolysis Preservation

[RockCityGuard]

Ever wonder how people get those shell fragments so nice and clean? Do you have a bayonet that was in the ground for 120 years and a nice shade of red/brown flaking rust? Well I know that there is some danger in encouraging people to clean artifacts but some people attempt cleaning using methods far from healthy.

I do not recommend this process to anyone…. It has to be dangerous (water and electricity) but I want to relay my experience with it.

A few years ago I took up ancient Roman coins. I got in quite a few that were encrusted with a nice layer of corrosion, dirt & debris with little hope of them ever showing much if any detail. I soaked some in olive oil for a few months as is recommended in a gentle cleaning method but this did little to help. I then found information on electrolysis cleaning of coins. I built what seemed (and still does) a dangerous combination of spliced together electrical components and a water bath and began the experiment. The results of this process on the coins were FABULOUS!

It didn’t take me long to start eyeing my relic collection and wondering if I should attempt stabilizing some of my iron pieces. I talked to someone at a museum that worked with some preservation and found that this method is in fact commonly used. I built a slightly larger bath and went to work. My first object was a simple square nail that came from a camp site I dug. The nail was badly encrusted and I thought it would make for a nice and inexpensive ‘test’. After about 20 minutes in the bath the rust and corrosion all fell away leaving a very nice hand forged nail. After a bit more research and testing I found that the best stabilizer to put on the iron to help prevent further rusting but not turning it into one of those horrid lacquered pieces is synthetic oil (the spray can type) but not petroleum based oils.

Following the successful test I moved on to a shell fragment and then a rusted mass of a pistol found on the banks of the Cumberland River in Nashville. Once the pistol had been through the process it was easily identifiable as a Starr Revolver. I would give $50 for a before and after picture of this but sadly I didn’t take any.

Some things to remember:

- Don’t use this process on any ACW artifacts unless they are BADLY rusted iron or steel. The patina of brass, copper, lead, bronze, etc… is a good thing and a nice even layer of rust is also not bad. If you take them away (make them bright and pretty) you are devaluing your artifact.

- NEVER use this process on live ordinance or ammunition. If there is even the faintest chance that there is powder in a projectile or cartridge do not attempt cleaning it in this fashion! My father has a highly corroded Bacon revolver that was pulled out of the ground a few years back that I would love to clean for him but I am not sure about two of the cylinders so I will not attempt it. I can’t stress this point well enough…. DO NOT FOOL AROUND WITH LIVE PROJECTILES!

- Don’t use zinc, copper, aluminum, silver or any kind of metal with plating for your anode or your clips (use only stainless steel). The anode deteriorates in the process so only use iron. This is also the process used in electroplating (anodizing) and if you are not careful you will electroplate your artifact. Yes I will confess…in my early experiments I plated one Roman coin in zinc and another in aluminum.

- Use EXTREAM caution with the whole process and do not get careless. Always defer to the side of caution. You are taking away some metal with the rust so you don’t want to leave it in the bath too long. A good firm plastic brush (never use a metal brush) will help if you hit it a few licks half way through the process.

- Use a solution of water and sodium carbonate for your bath. Many people suggest using a lemon or salt water solution but these are far too corrosive. Sodium carbonate is a soap that will not damage the artifact. In fact I use Arm & Hammer Fabricare Perfume & Dye Free laundry detergent (powder). It’s $5 at WalMart for 6 ½ pounds of the stuff.

- Finally – I don’t recommend you trying this and am not responsible if you electrocute yourself or destroy a priceless heirloom. This is only my experience.

There is a fairly good pictorial description of the process at: http://www.dirtyoldcoins.com/cleaning/electrolysis.html
but keep in mind to use sodium carbonate and be careful of your clips and anode. The trick is to test, test, test until you are comfortable with the process.

Oh….and don’t do this…. :wink_smil

Richard, please adjust your avatar to either be a picture of YOU in period clothing or no picture at all. It is one of the rules of the forum. Also, why would you post this information and then recommend NOT doing it? This process seems to be on a more professional level than most here may be accustomed to. I would warn anyone thinking of trying this method of preservation to talk to a professional preservationist prior to doing so - Mike Chapman

I will drop the avitar (sorry about that..I missed that in the regs). I wanted to pass this information on to the community. It is quite useful. I just do not want to be responsible for someone's mistake if they attempt it themselves. Oh...and I talked to several 'professional preservationist' prior to doing it. :wink_smil
-Russ

[Danny Brown]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

I do this process at Fort McAllister. I have treated a 1740 cannon, lots of shell frags and a dozen or so projectiles. Have cleaned from 6 pounders to 15"
and alot in the middle. I would say any iron object found on the coast or near salt water needs to be treated. It may look good now but will be a pile of dust in ten years. I also treat brass that has the bright green bronze disease on it. I never sell my relics or part with the Park's artifact so I clean anything that does not have a health patinia or stable surface.

I agreee the live shells aRE A LITTLE MORE TRICKY but are do able with pratice. Would love to continue on this topic if anyone is interested.

Danny Brown

[Chuck Winchester]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

"Richard, please adjust your avatar to either be a picture of YOU in period clothing or nothing.-Mike Chapman"

Mike,
why would you give Russ the option to be dressed in nothing in his avitar? That may appeal to you but I'd be willing to bet most here would find it anoying at best. Russ if you read this take it from me and post your avitar in period clothing, regardless of what the moderator suggests... you won't be sorry! :wink_smil
Chuck Winchester,
Critter Coy.
Sorry Mike, I couldn't resist.

[DonSmithnotTMD]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

well, many of us have wondered about Dusty. Man, this procedure sounds fairly advanced.

[65thgainf]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

I have used the process on my shell fragments. I use a car batter charger (12 volt) low voltage, so no real danger of killing yourself and Red Devil Lye. Also, a big Stainless Steel pan from Wal-Mart.

Is there anyway to improve on this ?

Jerry Holmes

I do this process at Fort McAllister. I have treated a 1740 cannon, lots of shell frags and a dozen or so projectiles. Have cleaned from 6 pounders to 15"
and alot in the middle. I would say any iron object found on the coast or near salt water needs to be treated. It may look good now but will be a pile of dust in ten years. I also treat brass that has the bright green bronze disease on it. I never sell my relics or part with the Park's artifact so I clean anything that does not have a health patinia or stable surface.

I agreee the live shells aRE A LITTLE MORE TRICKY but are do able with pratice. Would love to continue on this topic if anyone is interested.

Danny Brown

[RockCityGuard]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

I assume you use the stainless pot for a giant anode? Is this correct? I may give that a try...sounds like it may work better than dipping a smaller anode. I don't think I'd use Lye though. It is horribly corrosive. The Sodium Carbonate conducts the electricity VERY well which is what you are looking for in your solution allowing the electricity to do the work and as I said above it is soap...shouldn't damage your artifacts.

[1stMaine]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

Comrades,
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I disagree completely with the "Relic" group that says you devalue an artifact when removing the patina. What a bunch of bunk. Who would possibly want to own and display a hunk of rusting metal or rotting leather and/or cloth? The only possible explanations are either ignorance of preservation or laziness or both.
Anyone interested in preservation cannot in anyway subscribe to this "from the ground/found-in state " philosophy, as the patina is simply one form of destruction. Stabilization and preservation go hand in hand, and removal of the patina and any other form of corrosion is mandatory to ensure that these objects survive for future generations.
If there was ever a need for a mass re-education and re-direction of a societal group, it's the relic collectors.
That's my two-cents, and I'll step down from my soap box now...
respects,

[RockCityGuard]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

Comrades,
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I disagree completely with the "Relic" group that says you devalue an artifact when removing the patina. What a bunch of bunk. Who would possibly want to own and display a hunk of rusting metal or rotting leather and/or cloth? The only possible explanations are either ignorance of preservation or laziness or both.
Anyone interested in preservation cannot in anyway subscribe to this "from the ground/found-in state " philosophy, as the patina is simply one form of destruction. Stabilization and preservation go hand in hand, and removal of the patina and any other form of corrosion is mandatory to ensure that these objects survive for future generations.
If there was ever a need for a mass re-education and re-direction of a societal group, it's the relic collectors.
That's my two-cents, and I'll step down from my soap box now...
respects,

On this I certainly agree.... however the antique and collectables community do not. Certain items that I have in my personal collection that are in danger I have not hesitated in stabilizing. A healthy patina does not tend to continue the degradation of the relic though. I have cleaned some of my Roman coins to a nice shiny finish, but they were low value coins. There's nothing like holding a 2000 year old coin after a good cleaning.

[65thgainf]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

You are correct. Actually, iron shells, etc...are worth a little more cleaned up and defused vs. out of the ground condition. But, you never want to take the patina off a bullet or brass items. A buddy that was new to digging relics, dug a breast plate and was so excited he polished it to a like new shine. It now looks like a repro vs. the patina that had developed over the years.

By all means clean and stabilize iron, treat leather ,etc...but don't touch that patina on bullets or brass.

Jerry Holmes
Resaca, Ga.

Comrades,
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I disagree completely with the "Relic" group that says you devalue an artifact when removing the patina. What a bunch of bunk. Who would possibly want to own and display a hunk of rusting metal or rotting leather and/or cloth? The only possible explanations are either ignorance of preservation or laziness or both.
Anyone interested in preservation cannot in anyway subscribe to this "from the ground/found-in state " philosophy, as the patina is simply one form of destruction. Stabilization and preservation go hand in hand, and removal of the patina and any other form of corrosion is mandatory to ensure that these objects survive for future generations.
If there was ever a need for a mass re-education and re-direction of a societal group, it's the relic collectors.
That's my two-cents, and I'll step down from my soap box now...
respects,

[Jimmayo]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

Comrades,
Who would possibly want to own and display a hunk of rusting metal or rotting leather and/or cloth? The only possible explanations are either ignorance of preservation or laziness or both.
Anyone interested in preservation cannot in anyway subscribe to this "from the ground/found-in state " philosophy, as the patina is simply one form of destruction. Stabilization and preservation go hand in hand, and removal of the patina and any other form of corrosion is mandatory to ensure that these objects survive for future generations.
If there was ever a need for a mass re-education and re-direction of a societal group, it's the relic collectors.
That's my two-cents, and I'll step down from my soap box now...
respects,

Pretty strong words. I can't figure which catagory I fit in. I am not lazy so I must be ignorant.

This is my take on this subject.

Each dug item is unique and there are various ways to stabilize and preserve items of different material. It just so happens that leaving some alone is the right thing to do. Brass items from good soil use the patina as protection and will not degrade once this patina is present. Clean it and what happens? The patina comes right back and you may have damaged the item by cleaning. IMO and many others coating brass with a preservative is like waxing your car and not wiping it off.

Dug leather is very tricky to preserve. Clean and treat and it becomes very fragile. Keep it dry and cool and don't play with it and it will behave.

Iron items should be treated to stop flaking and further deterioration. Some are beyond the capabilities of most people to treat if salt water is involved. Iron can be treated to stop corrosion and still look like a relic (which it is).

I like my dug relics to look dug. That is my mindset. It's a thrill to dig an item that you know was last touched by a CW soldier. Cleaning it to look new somehow takes all the exitement away.


Nuff said. Now I will get off my soap box.

[Danny Brown]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

I assume you use the stainless pot for a giant anode? Is this correct? I may give that a try...sounds like it may work better than dipping a smaller anode. I don't think I'd use Lye though. It is horribly corrosive. The Sodium Carbonate conducts the electricity VERY well which is what you are looking for in your solution allowing the electricity to do the work and as I said above it is soap...shouldn't damage your artifacts.

You can use a plastic tub and a peice of junk metal. Hook the - to the relic and the + to the junk metal. I use Soda Ash as my catalist. Danny Brown

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

Can any of you add diagrams of these?

[Abrams]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

This is an old post, but using the search feature brought up several topics on using electrolysis to clean heavily rusted items. It seems a touchy subject, so I'll premise this post:

1-The item to be cleaned has no museum potential. Best way to determine this is to show it to a museum expert and let them determine what is best. (my opinion)

2-Since the item does not have museum potential, and you'd like to restore/repair the item to be used for living histories or to make a good wall-hanger, you've determined to restore the item.

Electrolysis can be a potentially nice way to remove corrosion without removing the good metal by abrasive techniques.

Here is a video showing the process on an old lock. I liked this video best, as the part being restored was a part with pieces and the process is explained well including solution strength and the product to use:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8vT2mdXBs8&feature=related

From what I have read, there are really only 3 dangers/cautions needed:

1-Never, ever, ever let the two items touch in the vat used when power is on. Never. Sparks, unwanted welding, explosions and other bad things will happen that you will not like.

2-The process bubbles and creates hydrogen. Remember the Hindenburg? Hydrogen is not just flammable, it is explosive. Do this in a well ventilated area like a garage with no open flames or sparks nearby. No Smoking! ;)

3-Only use Steel as your anode (the +). Stainless steel will last longer, but the residue it leaves contains chromium and other harmful materials. It seems that any good regular non-coated steel is best.

The electric charge is small, the solution is harmless. Use only a car battery recharger to supply power.
Remembering an accident from my youth compels me to add this: Electrolysis can ONLY be done with DC, not AC power. So use the battery charger. If you use AC power, when you throw the switch you will empty the bucket and wet down the ceiling. There will be a large blue flash of light and the breakers will blow.

As with anything you are not real familiar with, reading, watching and learning about it before actually doing it is a Very Good Thing. Keeps the adrenaline levels down. ;)

I plan to use this on that old shotgun I was given. I will try to post pics on the process if there is interest.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

Outers gun cleaning products has FOUL OUT, a system for removing bronze from gun barrels. It's the same theory and would work for shell fragments too.

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Electrolysis Preservation

"Stabilization and preservation go hand in hand, and removal of the patina and any other form of corrosion is mandatory to ensure that these objects survive for future generations."

Future generations will gain little or nothing from the individual items if they are removed from their context without adequate documentation (no im not dragging the archaeological vs hunters debate out). Patina or not, the objects survival doesn't necessitate the education of future generations. What is a button other than a button, unless its exact location and condition is documented alongside neighboring artifacts, cataloged and available to the public for interpretation, postulation or education? Without a adequate documentation of artifact and context exhuming the artifact to be sold on ebay, or in an archival box in a lab basement, having removed it from the ground is a disservice to history, historians and our future generations. Thats my soap box, conservation is only as important as the items context.