Museum of the Confederacy

[jlewis]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

For those who have not seen the construction I thought I would add a photo I took the other day on I95.The MOC is just on the other side of the buildings with the crane .

Nick Medwid

That picture not only sums up what is going on in Richmond but all over Virginia. It is a perfect example of where our battelfields will be in a few years. I hate feeling that in most of our life times we may see the end of the Civil War's legacy, impact and institutions. Not it's history but a majority of the things that draw people's attraction. Living in Lexington, VA most have no idea the impact that Lee and Jackson had on our history and a very large portion can not tell a picture of Lee from Jackson. Just orginizing a parade for the two generals is like pulling teeth. The red tape is more than for any other event in the county.

As for the MOC the UDC owned and operated it without a loss for a very long time, it was they who first allowed the hospital/school to operate on their land. Where's the love? If Richmond can not handle the MOC move it somewhere else. How about Manassas or Petersburg? With the museum gone does it mean that in 20 years new buildings will be built butting up against the White House?

Thanks for letting me rant that feels better,
Jon Lewis

[laudable_pus]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

My observations on quotes from variouis posters:

....put it somewhere else. How about Manassas or Petersburg?

To me that would be cutting off Richmond's nose to spite it's face. Richmond was the capitol of the Confederacy. "On to Richmond" was the battle cry of the Army of the Potomac for much of the war. It belongs in Richmond or in the Richmond area.

The new location of the MoC doesn't have to be off I-95. The folks who will visit the MoC or Richmond National Battlefield Park are those of us who are interested in history.

No, it doesn't have to be off I-95. It could be off of I-295, Richmond's Eastern bypass. That would put it closer to the battlefields. But the folks who need to be visiting museums are not we CW folks, but the average American.

...in attempting to get Richmonders to go to the Museum there will be somewhat little hope.

True, but not necessarily because of the poverty line. After all, many New Yorkers never visit the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State building. Being near a major interstate makes more sense to capture the average visitor.

Just my 2 coppers.

Lewis Patterson

[BenjaminLDavis]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

Hey all,

My wife and I visited Richmond a few years back - she got to run a marathon
(while I did the 5 plus mile puppy run) and we both got to see a lot of history.
One of the first places I insisted we see was the MOC and the Confederate
White House. We did not rent a car, and had to walk a few miles to get there,
and then could not find it right off, had to ask a few locals and cut through the
Hospitol to get there. And we knew of it before hand, and were motivated.

The crux of it is, the MOC needs to find a location where the casual, barely
interested individual and/or family can find them EASILY and without much
effort; that, coupled with getting the word out on what a superb experience is
to be had here, might up visitation yearly.

My best to the MOC. I hope to visit again many times before I cross over the
river and rest under the shade of the trees. Until then, I remain

[styler]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

The crux of it is, the MOC needs to find a location where the casual, barely interested individual and/or family can find them EASILY and without much effort

That... or signage.

[Wounded_Zouave]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

Time to beat this horse a little more because it's not dead yet.

I happened to be passing through Richmond a few days ago and found myself down at Tredegar Ironworks. Low and behold, there's something new in town; The American Civil War Center. They wanted $8 to see their schtick but I didn't feel like blowing more than $5 so I said "ta hale wid it." The place was dead, but it was an off day and time of year for visitation. So I went into the gift shoppe which was an a-typical CW high grade junk dealer. Nothing new here, I thought, so I walked over to the free-admission RNBP visitor center next door and visited the slighty smaller but far more intellectual book store.

But the whole time I'm asking myself, What's the point of having these two institutions side by side? One stop shopping? I struck up a conversation with another visitor and asked him if he was going to MOC while in town. His answer was like the guy in "Jaws" when told that he and his buddies had landed a tiger shark: "A whaaaa...???" He had no idea there was a Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond.

So, besides the lack of highway signage and the pitiful location, is Richmond suffering from too many CW visitor centers/musems of one type or another? RNBP, MOC and now this new-fangled ACW Center. Perhpas MOC should pack up and leave town... and I mean WAY out of town, like Montgomery, AL, the first capitol of the Confederacy. There seems to be too much competition for the CW dollar in Richmond.

[rebjeb04]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

Unbelieveable!!! A Southern Institution forcing a Soutern Institution to move. I'm personally tired of the politically correct. Does anyone realize what a national treasure the museum is?

Sam Billingsley 4th texas Co. E

I believe what Sam may have been referring to my be found below in regard to the political correctness, and it has a large bearing on the entire situation. This was written in response a while back when the musuem was asking for $$$. Michael A. Grissom, auther of several books relating to the Old South and her customs penned this response to the museum officials. He has known the museum for almost 20 years and has a first hand account of what has been going on.
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"I have little doubt that Mr. Marshall is a sincere supporter of the museum and is quite concerned as to its future. It does, indeed, have the world's most enviable collection of Confederate artifacts and relics and mementoes of the late Confederacy -- thanks to a group of ladies who organized in the late 1800s to collect and preserve and revere the memories of what some have called "The Lost Cause." Without them, there would be no artifacts over which to worry in this century.

I read with interest Mr. Marshall's plea not to allow "this treasured institution to become yet another victim of indifference, divisiveness, and political correctness."

It is too late to divert the institution from those three dangers. The Museum of the Confederacy was firmly in the hands of the politically correct (a term meaning the same thing as the old "party line" in the late Soviet Union) at least as early as 1988. They caused division and, finally, the indifference that threatens this institution.

In 1988, I attended the annual convention of the United Daughters of the Confederacy in Richmond. My first Southern book was hot off the press and was selling hand over fist all over the South. One afternoon, I took leave of the convention for a few hours to visit the Museum of the Confederacy. I wanted to see for sure if the Museum actually greeted visitors with the display of a heavy leather strap, illustrating what the South's plantation owners used to "beat" their slaves. I had heard from many a disgrunteld Southerner that there was such a display, but in
almost disbelief I wanted see for myself. Sure enough, in the first viewing case, there it was. Imagine the chill of such a perverted presentation!

While there, I toured the adjacent Confederate White House, impressed with the beauty of the building but equally unimpressed with the tour guides who flippantly presented us with an unimpassioned running narrative of the artifacts in the rooms. There were several young staffers who exchanged some "inside comments" about the Davises that were lost on us stupid tourists; but several unflattering remarks were made about Mrs. Davis that we did understand. One could sense that the staff was unemotionally attached to the Confederacy legacy and were merely doing a job, much as one would do at Burger King.

Before leaving, I showed a First Edition copy of SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD to the gift shop's buyer, a young lady who looked like she might have been all of 21 years old, and asked that my new title be carried in the gift shop. She didn't seem interested, but I asked if she might be willing to look at it overnight and, if so, I could come back the next day for an answer. I did, and she handed it back to me with one cold remark:
"This is NOT for us."

That was 18 years ago. Over the next few years, it became widely known that the politically correct were in charge at the Museum. Officials there refused to fly the Confederate battle flag amidst all the usual explanations (an "unofficial" flag, the Klan likes it, etc.), an emotional attachment to the Confederacy was non-existant, and the infamous leather strap still greeted visitors.

All over the South, SCV camps and UDC chapters became concerned and tried at different times to effect change in the operations there -- all to no avail. As more and more people learned of the unpleasantness associated with a visit to the Museum, attendance began falling, and the Museum took note. When personnel at the Museum began expressing some alarm and approached some SCV and UDC officials concerning the drop-off in attendance and support, there was but one answer: "You people have run off your core constituency, and there will come a day when you will have no support."

It wasn't entirely, nor in my opinion even primarily, the overbuilding by the Virginia Commonwealth University that brought the Museum to its present distress. It was the continual presentation of the Museum in a way that offended most Southerners. Had it been a place that instilled great pride in a native Southern visitor to the Museum, perhaps there would be no wringing of the hands now. Perhaps the Museum would have found friends in the legislature who might have continued to provide funding. Perhaps there could have been found friends across the South who would have endowed it.

I sincerely wish there was something that could be done to save the Museum and its priceless relics, collected by the loving hands of women who saw the War, lived the War, cried over their dead sons, saw their own homes go up in flames at the hands of Yankee soldiers, and then lived in poverty the rest of their lives as a result. Women who would never again hear the tread of their husbands' feet upon the threshold of their homes. Women who yet loved the deeds and memories of their late lamented Confederate States of America -- a great and noble experiment in liberty and independence. Women who vowed that the precious memory of the Confederacy not be forgotten or perverted. Women who, if they lived tody, would be dressed in mourning over the eviscerated Museum of the Confederacy.

If it is even possible, I seriously doubt that the Museum would be willing to return to the original intent of the founders. It would be my guess -- and only a guess on my part, since like most other Southerners, I have been disinterested in the place for many years now -- that, even if a complete change of direction were undertaken, it would take a monumental public relations operation to win back its former supporters in numbers necessary for saving the institution. Even now, I wonder if the Museum's officials realize the damage they have done over the past twenty or more years.

May I close with an illustration?

Three years ago, I took an associate of mine to Natchez, Mississippi, to visit the ante-bellum home called "Melrose," which had recently been bought by the Federal Government in Washington, D.C. The tour guides methodically moved our tour group through the two-story mansion, mechanically giving us all the details: how many bricks are in the walls, how thick the walls are, names of the plants growing in the garden, how long it took to redecorate, etc. Throughout the tour, my associate stood back from the group with a rather dour look on his face.

When we left, I looked at him and said, "You didn't seem to enjoy the tour."

"I never heard the tour guide express any pride in the South, any love for its people, or any interest in the events that used to make us proud of being Southern. If there's no fire, then it's all just bricks and mortar to me."

I am afraid that is what has happend to The Museum of the Confederacy."

-Michael Andrew Grissom, Author
Southern By The Grace of God
When the South Was Southern
Last Rebel Yell
Can the South Survive?
Southern Book of Quotes
Things I Learned the Hard Way
You Might Be Southern If...
Billy Jo, a novel
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[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

A very moonlight and magnolia look at the problems of the MoC but interesting take nonetheless.

[Army30th]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

I lived for 33 years in the South. God, I was even born in the South. In those 33 years, I never stepped across the threshold of the Museum of the Confederacy. I never even drove by it. I did, however, notice a sign on I-95 that directed motorists to it. It wasn't a very large sign, and if you blinked, you would miss it.

There is really no particular reason that ever caused me to want to go there. It's not because I didn't love the South, wasn't proud of my southern heritage, not proud of my Confederate Soldier ancestors. I don't know what it was.

However, I do firmly believe that you as an interpreter of history, tour guide, museum curator, or what have you; if you are not impassioned about your work, your attitude will manifest itself very quickly with the visiting public. If you show no interest in what you have to "sell", then why would I care to "buy"? There's an old acronym: WIIFM What's In It For Me?

Teach me, give me something to WOW about. Make me think about me, my society, the world. Make my visit and the visit of each guest the most important of the day.

I don't forsee me going there any time in the near future. But, it may find itself on my radar someday.

[BobSullivanPress]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

I don’t think moving the museum will do anything. I think the problem is much wider ranging, beginning with a de-emphasis on our country’s history, coupled with a de-emphasis on reading. I don’t want to turn this into a discussion of schooling however.

The rise of the internet has generated a cultural shift concerning the concept of time. The immediacy of the internet makes RIGHT NOW important and anything else “history”. Anything that is 6 months old is considered history. Anything that is 140 years old is dust.

Like it or not, the current generation of folks has been raised on presentations that incorporate multimedia, slam-bang images and sound. The idea that people will want to stop, stare at a coat and read a little card on the wall is quaint and seriously-old fashioned. Someone has decreed that people don’t have to read anymore. Last few times I went to the Philadelphia Art Museum, I didn’t have to read anything. I was presented with headphones and a playback device, and I wandered around listening to someone read to me about the artist and their work. Some might classify this as laziness; some might call it modern presentation methods. Heck, I don’t have to concentrate on my tying or grammar skills while I’m typing this. The computer is doing it for me.

The presentation of the items in the MOC is dated at best.

Another problem is that the MOC took, in my opinion, a very hard line between preservation and presentation. I remember (sounding like old f*rt here) visiting the Museum BEFORE they build the museum building, when it was all in the Confederate White House. What a treasure trove of artifacts it was to see. And I remember when the museum building first opened up, and my EXTREME disappointment while thinking, “Where did all the stuff go?” because 80 percent of it was no longer on display. I remember thinking, “Well, this museum is just like any other Civil War museum now,” because in the name of preservation or political correctness, all the interesting items seemed to have disappeared. How can you take a room that contained the dress coats of Johnston, Hood, Ewell, and about six others and make them all disappear? In the old place, you walked in and there, side by side, were closet-sized glass cases containing artifacts of Jackson, Stuart, and Lee. You were inches from these things. And in the new place, you were feet from what was left.

If someone is going to build a new museum, can they build a new museum? I mean, incorporate 21st century technology in it? Can we get away from the “stick stuff behind a glass wall” concept? Heck, the French don’t do that. If you want to see how an old fashioned museum should be, go visit Les Invalides. But come on, can we use more glass walls? Can we use holographic projections of the stuff that is too fragile or too rare to be actually out on display? Do you realize that there is no difference between your class museum case with a glass front and a decent picture in a book like Echoes of Glory? Because you can’t see the sides and back of the item in the picture either. You can take a virtual tour of a place via the Internet, and see lots of stuff as though you were standing in front of it. And if you are going to see the exact same thing if you are there in person, i.e. no sides and back, no better view, then why bother to go?

Finally, the city of Richmond needs to accept some blame as well. I lived there for two years. After I left someone asked me what I thought of it. I said, nice place, lots of stuff going on. But it’s the most schizophrenic city I’ve ever been in, massive denial and defensiveness going on. See, the two things that Richmond is most well known for are the Confederacy (capital) and Tobacco (Phillip Morris is the largest employer there). And neither one of those is socially acceptable.

[rebjeb04]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

Fellas,

Good point on alot of the situation. I too wonder about the artifacts that seems to be 80% "AWOL". I have the Uniform catalogs, but nothing is the same as being able to see the item in real life. These are our only tangible links to our in-tangible past, and relics of the old Confederacy -- a sacred chapter in American pride and history. Give me "moonlight and magnolias" any day over this coarse and perverted society we have today. This period in our country's history represents all that is good in civilization, men were gentlemen, and women were ladies. No fault in that, period! Maybe someday there will be tolerance for the honorable breed and unvanquished. In the days to come lets hope the future will be a positive one for the museum, and our g-grandchildren can enjoy the priceless relics as we have.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

Mr. Sullivan brings up a valid point. The Museum is dated. Like it or not, as my museum professor said so eloquently over and over this semester "infotainment is here to stay. " Visitors want to be informed about museum collections but they want it done in a manner that is poignant, memorable, and yes, entertaining. (Shock!)

As much as the members of this forum may want to see a General Hood frock coat, sword, revolver, boots, hats, whatever...the general family with children could care less. How are children to be engaged at a museum with static displays of objects dating more than 140 years in age? What about the disinterested teenager? The bored mother who says "Why should I care about a navy that doesn't exist in the present?"

Moonlight and magnolias remembering the honorable old South with Rhett and Scarlett and Mammy and Prissy is the beginnings of the Museum with its collections in the Confederate White House. It should not be the future. Unfortunately, if we want people some years from now to be able to see Lee's headquarters tent or the Confederate constitution these objects must be encased in enviornmentally stable cases. It also means that things cannot (or rather should not) be on permanent display. Light causes damage to color in any surface, textile, or paper. Furthermore, it's just plain not interesting to have the same thing permanently in a case as you get repeat visitors looking for different stuff. There are ways to get around the standard case against the wall and I remember in the Confederate Nation display of a jean frock coat in a free standing case so you could view from all angles. The same exhibit had an original CS constitution in the middle of an area. However, any museum cannot be clogged with these types of displays because of space. The American Disabilities Act requiring universal access (unless provisions are given and these typically to historic houses) means that those who may be wheelchair bound or on crutches have a clear access to displays and therefore items along walls become typical.

Returning to the old South days would mean a patronizing view at some of the core values of the antebellum and wartime South in education, gender, and most notably, race. Some of the most excellent exhibits in my opinion have been A Woman's War (mid 90s) and Before Freedom Came (1990/91; while I never saw this one mounted, the publication guide is a well used source of mine). These exhibits spoke to a different audience than middle aged males (predominately white).

As I saw someone mention this already, tours of historic furnishings are not what most people desire, and if it is, museums should not cater to it unless that is their purpose (example: Winterthur). The history of the Brockenbrough-Crenshaw-Executive Mansion is more complex than the repurchase of items verified to have been in the White House, likely to have been, or authentic to the era but were not in the house. I think every tour I've had there said the Davises frequently had entertainments, guests, and parties. However, not one has noted the incident in January 1864 in which a slave attempted to burn the house down, for an example of a twist to the standard tour.

The new museum doesn't need to be a 50 million dollar computer generated idea but having stuff to do is important to visitors of all ages. A place to try on clothing of soldiers and citizens, or a display of mannequins with clothing suitable to stations in life, or the ability to pull up little blocks to reveal answers to questions, touch screen computers to stimulate the mind, are just some ways to involve the public, making history exciting not just black and white images or some old stuff behind glass.

[styler]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

This period in our country's history represents all that is good in civilization, men were gentlemen, and women were ladies. No fault in that, period!

Well, that theme would certainly bring attention to the MoC's interpretive program.

[rebjeb04]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

E. Dabney,
Good point on the "infotainment", we do belong to a society that wants to be entertained - thats for sure. Gone are the days when the working man came home to read the paper or some other periodical and engage the thought process. Now its "crack open a budlight and tune into Everybody Loves Raymond". I 100% believe in a hands on display throughout the museum. I don't know anything that would have interested me more as a kid than trying on a uniform or holding a sword! I'm sure I would'nt be alone. Girls could try on jewelry, clothing, etc. too. It could be fun. However, history can be boring, but it obviously has some effect on folks or we probably would not be here doing what we do, and folks would not be buying battleflags for $950,000 3 weeks ago. The Confederacy was a nation, and a great one, while it lasted. There were several aspects to that nation encluding the homefront. I think those brave ladies back hold were just as brave as thier husbands, brothers, sweethearts off wearing the gray. I think it may have been those gals back home that kept those boys a fightin' when times were real though. Starving at home, striving to make ends meet, darning socks, those ladies were just as patriotic! I'd love to see displays on the homefront, the womens war, etc. As Southerners we have our uniqueness , a gallant breed, and the history of our independence deserves a museum where that story can be told.

I have attached two images of ladies on the Confederate homefront below from my personal collection.

The 1st image is Lucy Plummer Gloster of LaGrange, Tennessee. She had two brothers who fought for Tennessee. Capt. Arthur Gloster and James Otey Gloster (died at Murfressboro) C.S.A.

The 2nd image is Margaret Louise (Cobb) Wills of Nansemond Co. Virginia. Her husband was Capt. Irwin Cross Wills of the 5th Va. Cavalry, Co. H, and 13th Va. Cavalry, Co. A. They lived in Franklin, Va.

If only they were alive today, what could they tell us...

[tarheelpvt]

Smaller yet similar experiance in Raleigh NC.

Reading this thread brings to mind of the lose of the Civil War exhibit at the Museum of NC history in Raleigh. It was a great weekend stop just to marvel and study the uniforms and one of the largest collections of Confederate battle flags. Can't count the number of time I visited it. But it was taken down and replaced with a civil rights exhibit. Go figure. Things like this are happening all over to different extents. Won't be stopped anytime soon.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Museum of the Confederacy is Moving

I am just fresh from a MoC visit this past Saturday.

The Confederate Years exhibit and the basement exhibit with soldier life is just dull and unexciting. Several folks I went with had not been in over 12-15 years and recalled they were seeing the same exhibits with the same stuff from when they were 12-14 years of age.

The Confederate Navy (now going until whenever they have the time to complete their research and then begin mounting the Virginians at War exhibit) was interesting but could have had more on blockade runners who were not being honest little rah-rah support the South by honestly bringing in government supplies.

The Medical exhibit has finally been put away and a new Art of the Confederacy exhibit has been mounted. A few wartime paintings, sketches, photographs and a few post-war paintings are present. Not a large exhibit by any means and you would have to really be into the history of the wartime South to like it.

As we have discussed before, there was just no level of entertainment contained in the information (infotainment). Children walked around bored and to be honest, most adults were not terribly interested in the Navy as they flew through the exhibit. I thought it was interesting but could have been better.

As far as directions go, I saw no sign that said "Museum of the Confederacy" with an arrow. I saw signage for Court End neighborhood and the John Marshall House. If indeed there is no signage now (several of the old streets are closed) then how are visitors supposed to find you?

Just some musings from the recent visit, take them as you will.