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**Wounded_Zouave** · 01-09-2007, 08:47 AM

Re: Franklin news

“Some of the older businesses that are on Columbia Avenue now aren’t conducive to what Franklin wants to look like - this might be a good way to help businesses relocate.”

Hmmmmm.... OK, so why not come up with a proposal to re-develope the existing older business property on Columbia Avenue? Why not provide those older businesses with some tax incentives for the inconvenience while their property is undergoing renovation? Why hack away at 70 acres of green space? Oh... I forgot. Money, money, money... the only green that really matters. :sarcastic

**Michael Comer** · 01-09-2007, 10:13 AM

Re: Franklin news

Hensley, a Franklin resident, said he is aware of the historical significance of the property and has worked closely with Franklin planning staff and The Heritage Foundation to create design plans that would be sensitive to that history.

Putting buildings on green space that was part of a battlefield - that's real sensitivity to history.

**Utley** · 01-09-2007, 10:29 AM

Re: Franklin news

This isn't really any big news, that property tract has been for sale for years...huge for sale signs right along Columbia Avenue. The only problem is that until now they haven't found someone who had the money to buy it, but it sounds like they've found their customer.

**LWhite64** · 01-09-2007, 11:16 AM

Re: Franklin news

This is the piece of property that many have talked about before, as to why not try to get it while it was available, it has been on the market for over ten years. This piece is ground over which Brown's Division formerly Cheatham's moved. This is the last big piece of undeveloped core battlefield property, truely sad.

Lee

**sumter_guard** · 01-09-2007, 04:11 PM

Re: Franklin news

It was really only a matter of time. As I marched past this piece of land on the anniversary march I wondered how it could still be for sale considering the way the Pike looked. Too bad, but I don't see this one being thwarted.

Andrew

**Bushrod Carter** · 01-09-2007, 05:45 PM

Re: Franklin news

The sad thing here is that this property HAS been for sale for as long as I've been in Franklin (12 years now) and the "preservationists" have done NOTHING to attempt to save this piece of historic ground. Alas, it will be TYPICAL of the "preservationists" in Franklin to offer a knee jerk reaction once it is too late to do anything about it.

Sigh.

**Mcguire** · 01-09-2007, 06:38 PM

Re: Franklin news

It"s unfortunate that preservationist efforts were'nt aimed at getting the state involved in preserving this tract. Especially after the fact that no consideration whatsoever was given while the ground where the Confederate Army in the west ceased to exist was bulldozed into "Fashionable Franklin". Two of the most beautiful National Battlefield Parks I have visited, Shiloh and Chickamauga, were created in this state. When I visited Franklin last year to see friends I was very disappointed at what little was left of the battlefield. I guess it's hard to undo "progress" once it is in place, tearing down the Pizza Hut is of no real consequence. This would have been a perfect opportunity for the state of Tennessee to make up for letting modern civilization pave over the sacrifice and heritage of previous generations.

**Utley** · 01-09-2007, 08:12 PM

Re: Franklin news

David,

You touched on exactly what I was so surpised about. There was celebration and "victory" touted when the Pizza Hut was torn down, but all that was done is that it was moved to another part of the battlefield (just below Winstead Hill in the Target / Kroger shopping center). So...was it really a victory to move it to a different part of the battlefield? What has happened in Franklin is that the preservationists who are the most outspoken here are intermingled with the Carter House and thus the "battlefield" is often made out to sound like it's only the ground immediately adjacent to the Carter House. Some of the preservationists even stated that the Lotz House (across the street, where Opdyke's men charged right by) wasn't SIGNIFICANT to the battle! But of course, the Carter House, across the street, was. A much wider approach is definitely needed, and what I've advocated for years is not "preservation", but "reclaimation." We all need to face the fact that the battlefield is basically gone..and has been for sometime. Much of the growth and construction that started south of the Carter House area started in the early 20th century...likely by the vets or their children. Reclaimation makes much more sense to me, while at the same time making money to purchase more "battlefield." I, for example, used to own a home on Battle Avenue, which was basically where the 20th TN charged the works. I had to sell to buy a new larger home, but I've asked preservationists for years why they don't begin buying these properties, renting them out for a good sum (name your price in Franklin), and then over the years much of the area would become owned by the foundation WHILE PAYING FOR ITSELF through rent. I guess this is too much of a logical business idea, because everyone would rather fight about grant money or why they CAN'T do something than do it a way that will work. With my idea, after a large tract is again possessed by the foundation, bulldoze the houses and there's your battlefield again...RECLAIMED.

I guess it's more involved when you live here, but just had to air a side that many folks might not see in press releases. I would like nothing better than to crest the hill on Winstead and see split rail fences lining a one lane Columbia pike, with the right houses in the right places, etc. etc. That's not going to happen overnight, but steps can definitely be taken to work toward that end.

**dusty27** · 01-09-2007, 08:22 PM

Re: Franklin news

Is anyone on the thread a member of the Save the Franklin Battlefield Foundation? What is their stance on this?

Chris, I'm guessing here, but while your idea sounds like a good one, most of the preservationists at the local level are volunteers and don't necessarily have the funds or experience to own and be a landlord.

I know nothing about the situation in Franklin, really just what I read. Does anyone know WHY this land is deemed "insignificant"? Anyone know what the land sold for? Who sold the land?

**CYoungJSU** · 01-09-2007, 09:31 PM

Re: Franklin news

Several years ago a friend from Virginia and I hiked from Winstead Hill to the Carter House as Lee White slovenly drove my truck to our destination (no offense Lee, but you should have walked with us!). As we dodged traffic, we entered the very property in question. I do recall a real estate sign placed in the edge of the field we were walking through but cannot remember a set price or acreage. I remember thinking about the Confederate divisions crossing that field to the left of the Colombia Pike. I also remember making a comment to my friend relating to the idea of preserving this property. As we hiked toward the Carter House, we asked ourselves why no preservation society had taken any initiative in trying to purchase the property. It is truly sad that the land has been on the market for so long with the major emphasis aimed at tearing down a Pizza Hut or claiming a golf course. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not against these endeavors. I just believe that once the property has been commercialized or altered, it looses some of its uniqueness. To my knowledge, the property in question is "virgin soil" and has not been significantly altered. Why not try to preserve it first and foremost? I am afraid the next time I travel down Columbia Avenue and glance to my left I may catch a glimpse of an Old Navy or some other department store.

**Bushrod Carter** · 01-10-2007, 03:49 AM

Re: Franklin news

First, let me say that I TOTALLY agree with Mr. Utley on his thoughts and ideas. He and I have had many and lengthy discussions about how to be involved and reclaim some of the original battlefield. AMEN, Bro. Utley - you hit the nail on the head!

Now, as Utley has said, development of the Franklin Battlefield IS NOT a new thing. The killing field that was the battle of Franklin is something that the town worked hard to put behind it for almost the first 100 years after the battle. As Chris mentioned earlier he use to live, and I still live, in a �development� that sits on part of the final advance route (within one-half mile of the Carter House) of the Confederates. This �development� is mostly comprised of houses that were built in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s -- hardly what we would call mindless development by today�s standards. The same is true for the rest of the battle of Franklin epicenter.

Before tourism was a developmental issue for Franklin the citizens of this town simply were not interested in preserving the battlefield. Need more evidence � Ok. In the 1890s when the National Military Parks were first being considered, purchased and opened (please help me with dates here, Lee), representatives from the Federal Parks program visited Franklin, surveyed the land and OFFERED to purchase the ENTIRE Franklin battlefield from the Carter House to Winstead Hill (which includes the 70 acres we are now talking about) for $100,000.00!! Which was an outstanding amount of $$$ in 1890s dollars. What did the people of Franklin say, �No dice!� Really. And why is that, you ask? The county historian, Rick Warwick, and I have discussed this at length and we agree that the people of Franklin were so touched (emotionally, physically, and financially) by the battle that they simply wanted to put it behind them, move on and NOT strive to prolong the memory of something that scarred them so deeply. Here is a current analogy that has been discussed locally: Today, there are roughly 55,000 people living in Franklin. In 1860 there were 1,800 residence. On December 1, 1864 there were roughly 8,000 dead and wounded in, and just outside of, town. On the same ratio, if the battle were fought today, that means there would be an estimated 244,500 casualties for the inhabitants of this town to take care � WITHOUT National or State assistance. Now, put that in perspective with the victims of some of the natural disasters that have occurred in the past couple years, couple it with NO assistance and then multiply it by the hardships of what three years of war and occupation (in the minds of most middle Tennesseans of that time) had taken from the area and it�s residents, and what they had left to face the tragedy of the battle of Franklin with.

Another thing that should be mentioned about the proposed Military Park at Franklin is that it would have been a long shot to begin with. With parks already proposed and accepted at Shiloh and Chattanooga, and another in the works for Murfreesboro, the number of National Battlefield Parks in Tennessee was getting beyond our fair share. It has been explained to me by a VERY well known and respected NMP historian, that during the developmental time of the NMPs it was the desire of the National government to spread those $$$ as equally across the board as possible. So, with two parks set in Tennessee and a third in the works � coupled with a lack of enthusiasm from the residents of Franklin � it is easy to see why the battlefield of Franklin was bypassed and eventually � slowly and progressively � developed.

Now, back to today and the property in question. Can anyone tell the class what it means when a property is on the market for TWELVE (or more) years and doesn�t sell? It means two things: 1) that the owners are not in a hurry to sell (i.e. � they don�t need the money), and 2) because of #1 they can set the price high, sit on it, and hope that one day someone will come along with deep enough pockets to give them what they want. It seems that day has come. I DO NOT know what the contracted price for the property is, but I do remember when that parcel caught my attention a decade ago that the asking price was around $100,000.00 per acre! No kidding, a decade ago. And, believe me; prices in Franklin have gone WAY up since then. So, with that kind of $$$ on the table what do the preservationist do? In Franklin they look for the property with more good press appeal and they buy a golf course surrounded by nice upscale residences and leave the acreage surrounded by the dirty, less attractive industrial development closer to the epicenter of the battle of Franklin to be the next link in the chain of development that started more than a hundred years ago.

Now, after all that is said, is that property worth saving? Sure it is! Is it worth the preservationist time and energy? Sure it is! However, going way back to the beginning of the post now, is it worth the $$$ to save a parcel of land that is already encroached upon, or (and with the BIG $$$ that we are talking about) is that money better used in reclaiming (ala the Pizza Hut property) the more significant portions of the battlefield � where fighting and dieing actually occurred, or to buy land where the tread of men�s feet were simply felt a mile from were they fought and died?

Tough questions.

**dusty27** · 01-10-2007, 08:22 AM

Re: Franklin news

Pat,

Great editorial. Ever think about sending it in!:D

**DougCooper** · 01-10-2007, 08:38 AM

Re: Franklin news

When we work to save a battlefield, the goal is to make it sure what we save enables a visitor to grasp what happened there. Pat does a great job explaining how we got where we are today...and what this 70 acres means. There are no vistas remaining at Franklin - just like at Maryes Heights in Fredericksburg, you cannot stand at the Carter House and take in the entire sweep of the battlefield, getting a sense of the awful task Hood's men faced...and the sense of dread Schofield's men must have sensed as those men bore down on them.

So what to do? I agree with Pat that it is better at this point to concentrate bucks and sweat and lobbying to turn the epicenter into the kind of interpretive center that would tell the whole story. We are spending $12,000,000 to reclaim the Slaughter Pen Farm, the most significant piece of Fredericksburg. I can only imagine what the Franklin property would cost - it was $7,000,000 10 years ago. Rather it may be better to leverage the apparent interest the sellers have preserving some historical aspects by creating a memorial and an outlying interpretive center on site (much like the one at Corinth), or ensuring at the least that it is carefully surveyed and an interpretive "trail" be established, along with some green space for it preserverd that would connect with the Carter House and whatever is planned for the Pizza Hut property. Who knows, it might even be possible to have the sellers work with folks working on the Pizza Hut property to pool their ideas and free up some of the proceeds from the sale to support that - some developer good will and good sense that would draw folks in to the businesses that eventually go on the 70 acres.

The sellers have a vested interest in ensuring that whatever goes on the site is sensitive to the history of Franklin and attempts to create a win-sorta win for business and history. A win-win is probably lost - about 100 years ago.

Thanks Pat for a great explanation of how far from being a scene of glory to the folks who lived through it, Franklin was an unnatural disaster of overwhelming proportions...and a defeat of all hopes and dreams. Couple that with the fact that even today, we think of Franklin as a great waste of young men's lives with no corresponding gain. Though we admire the valor, we mourn the sacrifice and vilify the leader who ordered it. A fitting memorial to what happened that day - that would really make Americans understand, might be something akin to the Vietnam Memorial - with the names of the thousands of men, north and south who fell there engraved upon it.

Perhaps the sellers can be pursuaded to help create a fitting memorial that would somehow translate the spirit of the men of both sides - grim determination vs "the very madness of despair" that animated men facing near certain death.

**blt37thga** · 01-10-2007, 09:15 AM

Re: Franklin news

It's sad yall, it's just sad. I wish everybody would feel the way we do towards battlefield preservation.

CPRL.Ben Taylor
37th Ga co.i
HGB

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