Thefts From The National Archive- Arrest Made

[JimKindred]

And people still ask me why I do not recommend donating to museums -

From the AP

Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - An intern with the National Archives stole about 165 Civil War documents - including the War Department's announcement of President Lincoln's death - and sold most of them on eBay, prosecutors charged Thursday.

Denning McTague, who runs a Web site that sells rare books, worked at a National Archives and Records Administration site in Philadelphia last summer, prosecutors said.

McTague, 40, of Philadelphia, has helped officials recover most of the missing items and plans to plead guilty, his lawyer said.

The stolen documents include telegrams concerning troops' weaponry, the Lincoln death announcement sent to soldiers, and a letter from famed Confederate cavalryman James Ewell Brown "Jeb" Stuart, prosecutors said.

The sale of one of the items on eBay aroused suspicion and led to the investigation, National Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper said. The office of U.S. Attorney Patrick Meehan said that all but a handful of the items have been recovered.

McTague, who holds master's degrees in history and information systems, secured the unpaid internship through an affiliation with a university, court papers state. The papers do not name the university, but Cooper said a professor at New York's State University at Albany recommended McTague

Complete story here - http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8NT0H7G1.html

[Secesh]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

If memory serves me correctly I saw the Jeb Stuart letter on Ebay...Secesh

[dave81276]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

And people still ask me why I do not recommend donating to museums

Well, is it better to donate relics and documents to a museum where they might have the chance of being preserved for posterity, or should they all be sold to private collectors? It seems ridiculous to me to say we should sell Civil War relics on eBay to keep people from selling Civil War relics on eBay.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

83% of thefts from cultural institutions in America (library, historical societies, museums) are in-house and the culprits include directors, conservators, curators, janitors, guards, docents, volunteers and other employees. This is why the provenance of an item becomes so important to establish both title (and with it lawful possession) and credibility (of the object). Personally, I don't want anything that is original since I can't offer temperature, humidity, fire-protection (greatest threat to a cultural institution), pest-protection (don't want bugs eating your uniforms) for the object. It costs enough just to buy a special acid-free box for an antique book.

[JimKindred]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

Dave,

You may be surprised to learn that the majority of serious long time collectors in most cases take better care of their collections than many museums. The difference is that the individual collector has a personal financial interest in taking care of his collection where as many museum employees have no such interest to motivate them to care for the collection. Too many times I have learned of donated items sold out the back door of museums. In addition a great number of donated items are tossed into boxes never to see the light of day again.

Just because an item is in a private collection do not think that it will never be seen by the public. One look at any of the many books dealing with artifacts will give credit for the loan or photos of items in private collections. These books give the opportunity to a larger number of those interested in seeing these items than these pieces being stuck in a museum. Yes, museums do the same but as a whole you will see a larger number and variety of items coming from private collections.

Donating an item to a museum is no guarantee that it will be well cared for or appreciated by the museum receiving the donation. My reason for not recommending the donation of artifacts to museums is that in many cases they cannot be trusted to do the right thing. Too often well meaning people donate to a museum under a serious misconception of how museums operate. Don't be fooled, museums buy, sell and trade artifacts just as collectors do.

Well, is it better to donate relics and documents to a museum where they might have the chance of being preserved for posterity, or should they all be sold to private collectors? It seems ridiculous to me to say we should sell Civil War relics on eBay to keep people from selling Civil War relics on eBay.

[dave81276]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

Jim,

I never said private collectors don't take good care of their collections, but how should they dispose of them? No collector lives forever; his or her heirs may not be as history-concious as we are. Or he may sell his collection. Then we will hear the chorus of preservationists complain about how the collection was broken-up and spread to the four corners.

As far as museums trading in artifacts, why shouldn't they? My pet, the Museum of the Confederacy, receives a number of artifacts each year that have only a tenuous connection to the Confederacy. Why should they not sell that artifact to a museum, which can use it, for cash, which they can use for better utilization of their remaining artifacts? The argument that museums sell peripheral parts of their collections is a red herring and only confuses the issue.

Besides, museums on the whole are more accessible to the general public than private collections, most of which are not available to the public, and, while space limitations require the bulk of a museum's collection to remain in storage at any one time, museums are the better repository for artifacts. Instead of witholding relics and documents, we should support museums more generously so they can afford to provide better conservation and security. If not, some day Echoes of Glory may be all we have left. A miserly outlook will only result in miserly outcomes.

[JimKindred]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

Be that as it may, I have over 30 years of collecting experience that prove otherwise. If you will read the news story again, you will see it was a museum employee selling off these items on Ebay. In this case the museum was not in a position "to provide better conservation and security". If they were these items would not have popped up on Ebay.

"Then we will hear the chorus of preservationists complain about how the collection was broken-up and spread to the four corners."

If someone worries about a collection being broken up, there is a simple solution, all they have to do is pony up their money and buy it. If they can't, well, that's tough. To often it is forgetten that what is in private collections is just that private, not the universal property of those with an interest in it.

[dusty27]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

Jim,

While I understand your point of view, don't your statements paint museums with a broad brush? I work for a national museum that does NOT sell things from it's collection.

That being said, when a donation is made, several contigencies can be placed on the donation, up to and including clauses that either prohibit the sale of or at least a "rite of first refusal" at any possible future sale.

As with anything, there are not absolutes.

[JimKindred]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

"....several contigencies can be placed on the donation, up to and including clauses that either prohibit the sale of or at least a "rite of first refusal" at any possible future sale."

Dusty,

Very true. As I said in the beginning I do not recommend donations. However if someone is determined to donate items to a museum I suggest that they have a letter of agreement with the museum as to how the donation/loan will be handled. I have loaned items to museums in the past with no problem by having such a letter insuring that they will be responsible for any loss or damage and that the item will be returned on a given date or the contract renewed on a given date.

Also painted with a broad brush is the acceptance by some that all museums will treat items correctly and not let them slip out the back door. There are no absolutes in that corner either. :)

[dusty27]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

Also painted with a broad brush is the acceptance by some that all museums will treat items correctly and not let them slip out the back door. There are no absolutes in that corner either. :)

Jim,

Very true. One should always do one's research prior to donating their collection.

[dave81276]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

In this case the museum was not in a position "to provide better conservation and security".

Jim, please add "we should support museums more generously so they can afford" before "to provide better conservation and security." You can twist my quotes out of context, but we should be pushing for more responsible, better museums, not more privately-owned collections. I hear tons of people howl about the wrongs perpetrated by museums, but nobody wants to get involved and change things. This kind of negative, parochial mentality can only lead to more restricted access to artifacts, not more.

If you will read the news story again, you will see it was a museum employee selling off these items on Ebay.

I know the news story is about a museum employee stealing items and selling them, but you brought up museums selling artifacts to obscure the issue. The funny part is, private collectors have had artifacts stolen from them and sold on eBay. Using your logic, we shouldn't let anyone privately own collections either, because their collections can also be stolen. It is a ridiculous and simplistic argument.

[JimKindred]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

Dave,

Climb down off the high horse just a minute. There was NO intention of twisted you comments, I find the suggestion of such a bit offensive. I felt that those reading this thread would have enough common sense to go back read all the posts, not just the edited ones.

I feel that you comments are some what guided by your feelings for the ills that have fallen on your pet museum - the MOC, none of which have anything to do with this particular discussion.

Your logic suggested that the ONLY safe place for artifacts was a musuem and that is what I disagree with. Dusty and I have met on common ground both understand that neither option is 100% safe but people should educate themselves before donating an artifact to a museum with regards to what the museum may do with the item. It is the blind trust people have for museums that I object to.

Another thing I object to is the fanaticism shown by some who believe that all of these items belong to everyone and no individual should own them. That level of socialism isn't going to fly.

I stand by my comment of not recommending, the key word being recommending, the donation of artifacts to museums. As Dusty and I discussed if someone is bound and determined to donate items there are procedures that should be followed to protect the artifact and those making the donation.

We could sit here and argue until both are blue in the face, you have your opinion and I have mind. Neither of us will change the opinion of the other.

[KathyBradford]

Re: Intern Sold Civil War Items on eBay

The thief plead guilty, and most of the documents have been recovered.

http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_094072734.html

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=5181111

[BrianHicks]

Thefts From The National Archive- Arrest Made

A 40 year old male, with Masters Degrees in History and Library Science was pilfering Original Civil War documents from the National Archives, and peddling them on E-bay!

Read the details here:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NATIONAL_ARCHIVES_THEFT?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Anyone out there know this person, or buy any original documents via e-bay in the last year?

[Rob Walker]

Re: Thefts From The National Archive- Arrest Made

This makes you wonder how many other documents made their way out of the archives and into private collections. Between this and Sandy Berger stealing classified documents a few years ago the National Archives needs to seriously think about adjusting their security. On the same note I am baffeled as to why the NA is out to give this guy the maximum penalty even after receiving the documents back while the other guy walked away with nothing more than getting a finger shook in his face. The NA is certainly not trying to deter people from doing this again with the way they handled it in the past.