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Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

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  • Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

    MONTPELIER, Vt. — Everyone agrees that the bronze cannon, cast in 1863 and used by a Vermont artillery unit in the Civil War, is a valuable piece of the state’s military history. But the accord stops there.


    A group of Civil War re-enactors that has used the cannon for 30 years is fighting to keep the state, which owns the cannon, from taking it back.

    The re-enactors say they have been good stewards of the cannon, repairing it and firing it around the state and country, and should be able to keep it. The state says the cannon is most likely unsafe for firing and wants to put it on display in the Vermont Veterans Militia Museum and Library.

    “It’s enormously painful,” said James Dassatti, whose Second Battery Vermont Light Artillery re-enactment unit has used the cannon since the late 1970s. “Not only is it painful that we could potentially lose it, but it’s painful the way it’s been put upon us. For many of us the last 30 years of our lives have been intertwined with the cannon.”

    The two sides have been at odds since January, when the state notified Mr. Dassatti that it wanted the cannon back. The cannon spent the winter at the Watervliet Arsenal in Watervliet, N.Y., and will remain there until the dispute is resolved.

    Richard Fifield, the former head of the Second Battery, said he lent the cannon to Mr. Dassatti, who graduated from Norwich University, where he had been a cadet and lost his hand in a cannon firing accident. Mr. Fifield said former Gov. Mortimer Proctor, whose family commissioned the cannon a century earlier, lent him the cannon in the 1960s but made it clear the state owned it.

    “I loaned it to Dassatti because he was a Norwich cadet and he wanted to keep the Second Battery going,” Mr. Fifield, 86, said. “Now he doesn’t want to give it back. I don’t think the state owes him anything.”

    The Legislature held hearings on the dispute in April. Mr. Dassatti and Ron Crisman, who runs the museum, both appeared before a legislative panel in Civil War uniforms.

    Legislators tucked a provision into the state budget that calls for an independent expert to assess the safety of the cannon. If the cannon is found to be safe the state will lease it to Mr. Dassatti; if not it will be housed at the museum.

    A conclusion, however, is not imminent, and both sides are confident of victory.

    “I sat in a room and listened to both sides, and both sides are on a mission,” said State Senator Susan Bartlett, who filed the legislation on behalf of Mr. Dassatti. “I think maybe we should make them square off and do an Alexander Hamilton.”

    That would be historic but unsafe, which is exactly what some see as the problem with the cannon.

    “It shouldn’t be fired any more for safety and liability issues,” said Mr. Crisman, who has been working with the state to get the cannon back. “We’ve got a great history with this cannon, and we really think it’s time this thing is returned and given a decent home.”

    Mr. Dassatti said he thought it had a decent home, and is trying to find another expert to test the cannon, which he said was “as sound as the day it was made.”

    Mr. Dassatti said his group had made numerous repairs to the cannon and felt as if no one recognized them.

    “We travel with it and go out of state as ambassadors of Vermont,” Mr. Dassatti said. “We want to show that war is not glorious, that it’s a great sacrifice for people to participate. That has always been our recreational mission.”

    Mr. Crisman, however, said he thought it was time to retire the weapon, because the state bore liability should something go wrong.

    “If we own the cannon, we, the people of the state, are ultimately responsible,” Mr. Crisman said. “Cannons are dangerous.”
    Attached Files
    Jared Nichols

    Liberty Rifles
    - The French Mess

  • #2
    Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

    Here's another link to the NY Times online article.
    A group of Civil War re-enactors that has used a historic cannon for 30 years is fighting to keep the state, which owns the cannon, from taking it back.


    For those that know Jim this is a bit nuts to see him in the NY Times!

    Thanks,
    Garrett W. Silliman

    [I]Don't Float the Mainstream[/I]
    [SIZE="1"]-Sweetwater Brewing Company, Atlanta, GA[/SIZE]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

      I'm not sure I get why they showed up at the hearing dressed in their 1860s gear instead of a conventional suit and tie.
      Paul Calloway
      Proudest Member of the Tar Water Mess
      Proud Member of the GHTI
      Member, Civil War Preservation Trust
      Wayne #25, F&AM

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

        If it has been used for 30 years and fired hundereds of times, plus the fact that they probably have repaired and restored it, why now, would it suddenly become a safety hazard? :sarcastic

        The Vermont museum just wants a free cannon.
        Last edited by Duff; 06-10-2007, 07:24 PM. Reason: layout
        James Duffney
        61st NY
        Brave Peacock Mess

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

          For thirty years the state of Vermont has allowed him to use a historically significant cannon, he should thank them for the thirty years and move on. This is not a nondescript old Napoleon, but one that has historical significance for the state of Vermont. The state should pay the guy for the expenses he has incurred in maintaining it over the years, and he should use the funds for a reproduction. Don't you hate it when you loan something valuable to an individual and they do not want to give it back. I do, however, object to the state using safety as a pretext for getting it back.
          [FONT="Times New Roman"]David Slay, Ph.D[/FONT]
          [COLOR="Red"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Ranger, Vicksburg National Military Park[/FONT][/COLOR]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

            Originally posted by Duff View Post
            The Vermont museum just wants a free cannon.
            Actually, It sounds to me like for 30 years the state has provided this artillery unit a free cannon. Any repairs and maintenance provided were probably due to its being used in reenacting and would not likely have been required had the piece been in a museum or storage. I don't know that safety is a pretext, the bottom line is the cannon owner loaned it out and now wants it back. I think the artillery unit should thank their lucky stars for the remarkable privilege they've been granted these last 30 years and begin looking for ways to raise the funds for a replacement reproduction cannon.
            Troy Groves "AZReenactor"
            1st California Infantry Volunteers, Co. C

            So, you think that scrap in the East is rough, do you?
            Ever consider what it means to be captured by Apaches?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

              Originally posted by paulcalloway View Post
              I'm not sure I get why they showed up at the hearing dressed in their 1860s gear instead of a conventional suit and tie.
              Apparently they did not want to be taken seriously. This kind of stuff drives me crazy.

              I hate to tell these guys, but they better go find a new cannon.
              Bob Muehleisen
              Furious Five
              Cin, O.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                Originally posted by AZReenactor View Post
                Actually, It sounds to me like for 30 years the state has provided this artillery unit a free cannon. Any repairs and maintenance provided were probably due to its being used in reenacting and would not likely have been required had the piece been in a museum or storage. I don't know that safety is a pretext, the bottom line is the cannon owner loaned it out and now wants it back. I think the artillery unit should thank their lucky stars for the remarkable privilege they've been granted these last 30 years and begin looking for ways to raise the funds for a replacement reproduction cannon.
                Agree 100%
                Soli Deo Gloria
                Doug Cooper

                "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

                Please support the CWT at www.civilwar.org

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                  Originally posted by paulcalloway View Post
                  I'm not sure I get why they showed up at the hearing dressed in their 1860s gear instead of a conventional suit and tie.
                  Misplaced symbolism.

                  Kent Dorr
                  "Devils Own Mess"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                    Originally posted by paulcalloway View Post
                    I'm not sure I get why they showed up at the hearing dressed in their 1860s gear instead of a conventional suit and tie.
                    Paul,


                    I agree, to be taken seriously on matters like this the Civil War community doesn't need to look like a bunch of crazy people in costumes. Its really not how we perceive ourselves rather how others perceive us. Especially in matters such as this.
                    Jared Nichols

                    Liberty Rifles
                    - The French Mess

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                      Sentiment aside, this cannon belongs to the State and the State has the right to do with it as is desires.
                      I am curious if there was any type of agreement, written or otherwise, when the piece was lent out. If I were the State, I would have put in a clause that any maintenance costs, repair, etc., would be born by the crew, not the State.
                      Having the use of an original piece for 30 years isn't such a bad deal, is it?

                      Andy Redd
                      Andy Redd

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                        I agree with friend Reed -- what a glorious opportunity, but it was a "loaner" item that could be called back at any time. Say thanks, find a replacement for your living history events and visit the original in the museum when you can.

                        Btw, not to make light of the man's earlier accident, but didn't anyone else feel uncomfortable with the juxtapositioning of these phrases?
                        “… where he had been a cadet and lost his hand in a cannon firing accident …”
                        “Cannons are dangerous."

                        Regards,
                        Paul Hadley
                        Teenaged Son Serving on Gun Crew This Summer Mess
                        Paul Hadley

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                          Gentlemen, I also tend to agree; somewhat.. I do however wonder though if the government can just lay claim to a historical artifact unfettered after so many years how many of us could potentially lose some prized muskets or swords that our ancestors carried that hold a special place of honor upon our walls and showcases in our homes?

                          After all technicaly they are US property.

                          If some offical was to knock at your door because he saw your impressive display you brought to a living history and then request the items to be turned over to the state museum would you have a problem with that?

                          These items that you may have inherited from generations in your family or spent your hard earned dough on. Either way it becomes more complex.

                          Just a thought...

                          R.C.Tarbox
                          [COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua]Sgt.R.C.Tarbox
                          6thNHVI
                          Bully Sixth

                          "Don't you run till you see the Sixth New Hampshire run; but when you see that regi-ment retreating, you may do likewise." (officer of a Regiment fighting with the Sixth at Bull Run)

                          {History of the Sixth New Hampshire Regiment in the War for the Union
                          Captain Lyman Jackman}[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

                          [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=SlateGray]5th VA. Company D
                          Southern Guard[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                            Originally posted by Pvt_6thnhvi View Post
                            Gentlemen, I also tend to agree; somewhat.. I do however wonder though if the government can just lay claim to a historical artifact unfettered after so many years how many of us could potentially lose some prized muskets or swords that our ancestors carried that hold a special place of honor upon our walls and showcases in our homes?

                            After all technicaly they are US property.

                            If some offical was to knock at your door because he saw your impressive display you brought to a living history and then request the items to be turned over to the state museum would you have a problem with that?

                            These items that you may have inherited from generations in your family or spent your hard earned dough on. Either way it becomes more complex.

                            Just a thought...

                            R.C.Tarbox
                            The legal professionals should correct me if I am mistaken in my understanding of the law in a matter like this. I see the difference being the existence of a document declaring the cannon to be on loan and the number of years in question. I assume both parties agreed to the terms and conditions stated or implied within the loan document and, historically/legally speaking, thirty years might not be considered that long of a time.

                            In the case(s) of "family heirlooms", "antiques", etc., mentioned above, I believe the government (Federal or State) would likely be found to have implicitly reliquished any rights or claims to that property by failure to exercise those rights/claims for 140+ years. In theory, the issuing governmental agency could try to reclaim such artifacts, but their inactivity, in the face of full knowledge regarding the practice of private ownership and sales, would weigh heavily against them.

                            By way of comparison, it is a different situation at National Parks, where retention of discovered artifacts by private individuals is forbidden by law. There the claim is active, ongoing and exercised with regularity.

                            IMHO, its time for the guys to start shopping for a replacement cannon.
                            [I][/I]Die Gedanken sind frei
                            John Thielmann[I][/I]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Vermont Tries to Take Back Civil War Cannon

                              Honestly, wouldn't peaple learn more about Civil War artillery from a group of reenactors than a display in a museum in Vermont? Just a thought...
                              James Duffney
                              61st NY
                              Brave Peacock Mess

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