How do you preserve cannonballs?

[30th IL]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

I have heard of preserving pickles, tomatoes and various fruits and berries into a marmalade but I have never heard of cannonball being preserved. Must be tough on the teeth!:D

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

...The overall philosophy is to tred lightly, impacting history as little as possible, thus saving the history for future generations. Using more permanant options crosses the line from preservation to restoration...

..." Can we do this" perhaps we can ask " Should we do this"...

...The final step... is to coat all iron items with tannic acid, a thin black liquid that acts as an oxygen barrier. In theory, tannic acid is a completely reversible product as essentially it's a concentrated tea...

Outstanding advice.

I use Ospho. http://www.ospho.com/

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Just to add a little to the tannic acid recommendations, tannic acid attacks the rust and not the metal per se.

[KevinInDel]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Good advice Steamboat Willie.

Does anyone happen to know if Pete George is still in the business? I've been trying to find some contact info without any luck.

Thanks

Kevin Mulrooney
Newarl, Delaware

[Dreamer42]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Wonderful post. I did not realize so much was involved in preserving such artifacts. My
.02 is that you avoid contacting the media or newspaper. They are likly to jump in a frenzy that you have loaded ordinance and may pose a threat to your community. Here in McKinney just this last year (a previous topic on this site) the local High School was shut down and police were called in to "dispose" of the civil war artillery shell. All could have been handled calmly and scientifically, but you know how some people can be who don't have even the slightest understanding of these things. Rather than properly disarming the device, it was exploded - and hense, destroyed forever.
Thanks to all for adding your experiences to this topic. Helps all of us understand more - and hopefully educate others in the process.

- Jay Reid
9th Texas
Franklin '04, BGR, (and soon to be...Winter Outpost '08)

[33rd VA Co. H]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Perhaps I may add a different perspective....

The sole premise of preservation is to save an artifact but alter it minimally, if at all. An item once altered cannot be reversed. An item once damaged, cannot be fixed.

Hammers, chisels, various acids, and heat will all alter the conditon of the cannonball. All will remove rust and dirt in the short term. Still we must consider the long term effects. It is important to ask these questions before proceeding on any item:

.

At the Arabia we have a very simple process for cleaning metal. We gently pick away any excess dirt with a dental pick. If the item is exceptionally fragile, we will take a soft pink pencil eraser and gently " erase" any rust. Yet we are careful not to remove all the dirt and rust.

The worst thing than can happen to a metal item is to place it without cover in an environment that is both humid and oxygenated. Unless the soil that the cannonball comes out of is extremely alkaline or acidic, the dirt will act as a superb barrier to further damage. Even in less than pristine environments the chances are greater that a guy with a chisel will do far more damage than the soil anyway.

The final step at our museum is to coat all iron items with tannic acid, a thin black liquid that acts as an oxygen barrier. In theory, tannic acid is a completely reversible product as essentially it's a concentrated tea.

The overall philosophy is to tred lightly, impacting history as little as possible, thus saving the history for future generations. Using more permanant options crosses the line from preservation to restoration.

This is not meant to be a diatribe, nor am I claiming to be the bastion of preservation. Still, it is important to slow down a little when dealing with irreplacable artifacts. Rather than ask " Can we do this" perhaps we can ask " Should we do this".

Just a thought from a person of little consequence.

The sole premise of preservation is to save an artifact but alter it minimally, if at all.

My motivation for preservation is to stabilize the artifact and prevent further deterioration as it sits in my collection. I'll agree that hammers and chisels are extreme and as a rule of thumb should not be used but the relic and it's condition should be the determining factor in the method chosen to clean it.

Regarding the questions you ask before cleaning an item...

Will this alter the item from it's original condition? Is the item now susceptible to greater damage due to the treatment? Is it in the best interest of the artifact to simply leave the item alone?

You know as well as I do that almost every cleaned item will never be returned to it's original condition. Time and the elements impart permanant damage that varies with the type of item, material composition and conditions it was in prior to being found. Almost all items with the exception of iron will not be susceptible to greater damage due to cleaning. Iron, as you know will begin to rust again if not treated after cleaning. I will agree completely that many times it is indeed in the best interest of the relic to leave it alone and as a testiment to such... probalby 90% of my collection has had nothing more than a wooden toothpick and a soft toothbrush touch it.

At the Arabia we have a very simple process for cleaning metal. We gently pick away any excess dirt with a dental pick. If the item is exceptionally fragile, we will take a soft pink pencil eraser and gently " erase" any rust. Yet we are careful not to remove all the dirt and rust.

I'd like to see you, your eraser and dental pick work on a farm field found bayonet. Electrolysis, either zinc/lye or DC voltage won't be beaten.

Unless the soil that the cannonball comes out of is extremely alkaline or acidic, the dirt will act as a superb barrier to further damage. Even in less than pristine environments the chances are greater that a guy with a chisel will do far more damage than the soil anyway.

I don't know where you live but I don't know anyone who digs relics out of neutral ph soil. Almost every single iron artifact that comes out of the ground will be rusted to one degree or another and will need to be cleaned at some point to avoid further deterioration. If you're leaving rust and dirt on the object and calling it clean I suppose that's up to you. When it comes right down to it... I'd rather see a cleaned cannonball with a chisel mark than to hear about a rusty cannon ball in the ground.

The overall philosophy is to tred lightly, impacting history as little as possible, thus saving the history for future generations. Using more permanant options crosses the line from preservation to restoration.

I don't think using permanant options to clean or treat an item crosses any line with the exception of possible bad judgement depending on the option chosen and the relic and it's condition. Rust removal, regardless of method will hopefully be permanant and some of the more agressive processes appear to cross a few of your lines. I personally don't consider it restoration until you're trying to polish the item back to it's 1860 condition. The bottom line is, the owner of the relic can and will do as they please with it. It can only be hoped that they choose wisely when they decide which method they will use to clean it

Finally, as kind of a sidebar to one of your first comments..

An item once damaged, cannot be fixed

That all depends on what you consider fixed. I have a very talented friend named Roland who's business is relic repair. Which would you rather have..before or after?

[Steamboat Willie]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Greg,

Good points all. I'm short on time, but I'll try to address a few:

I'd like to see you, your eraser and dental pick work on a farm field found bayonet. Electrolysis, either zinc/lye or DC voltage won't be beaten.

Point in fact, all the artifacts of the Steamboat Arabia were removed from a cornfield in Kansas City, Kansas. Even on items found directly next to barrels of salt pork, this tried and true method has worked. Bear in mind that the eraser is used in a electric draftsman's tool, not by hand.

I don't know where you live but I don't know anyone who digs relics out of neutral ph soil.

Where I live in Kansas City, the thick clay we are known for does tend to vary. That said, of the nine steamboats located by the Hawley family in the states of Missouri and Kansas, eight were in PH 7 soil. The ninth was found in just slightly alkaline soil.

It can only be hoped that they choose wisely when they decide which method they will use to clean it

Which is what my point was all along. I never claimed that what I do is the only way or the best, merely different. Artifacts are the property of those who find them and they are free to do whatever they wish. All I was trying to encourage was a little forethought and caution before dipping an item in motor oil, acid or the like.

Not every dissenting opinion is meant to be confrontational, sometimes it's just suggesting an alternative. Whether anyone finds the alternative to have value is another matter.

If you read through my post again you might see the spirit in which it was intended. We are on the same side of the argument, we just have different ways of getting there. My suggestion was meant to add to the discussion, hopefully it did.

Thank you for your candid opinions.

Best Regards,

[33rd VA Co. H]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

I appreciate your comments. The elaboration on your use of the eraser is indeed intriguing. Feel fortunate that the soil you deal with is as good as it is. Most of the locations I dig have fair to poor soil conditions. Hopefully this discussion of different methods of cleaning iron items will cause folks to have better results when they attempt to clean relics of their own. I suppose in this instance the old "to each his own" saying is true.... you have your dental pick and eraser and I'll take electrolysis. :teeth_smi

[VaTrooper]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Let's hear some thoughts on cleaning brass. Lemon juice, ammonia, and aluminum jelly (For gilted buttons) are common responses from diggers.

[33rd VA Co. H]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Let's hear some thoughts on cleaning brass. Lemon juice, ammonia, and aluminum jelly (For gilted buttons) are common responses from diggers.

I'm not a huge fan of doing too much to brass as the patina is what makes it attractive. The majority of brass I dig gets nothing more than a wooden toothpick and a super soft toothbrushing. Here are two plates I dug a while back that are as clean as they are ever gonna get. I've cleaned various other brass pieces with different methods....lemon juice, hydrogen peroxide etc... I'll try to find some before and after pictures of some of that stuff and post them later.

[Jimmayo]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Unless I get a really gilted button I usually just clean the dirt off with a tooth brush and water. I have seen people clean CS brass buttons with ammonia till they are orange or black and it makes me sick. My initial feeling is that it is a relic, preserve it if needed and that is all. Dirt is good when on items like the plates below. These all came from one spot and were just washed with a tooth brush. I couldn't resist cleaning the Georgia button. Moderator: If there are too many relics being posted which is kinda off topic, feel free to delete this post.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How do you preserve cannonballs?

Hallo!

IMHO, there are different "ends" at work.
Meaning whether one is preserving, or conserving, or restoring the artifact.

(May be it was the Olde Daze archeology lab with prehistoric pottery sherds and "reassembling" the bits and piece using materials that stood out or contrasted the artifactual material so one WOULD/COULD easiloy see that it is replacement.)

Curt