New York State Coats

[Son of Eire]

The boards are atwitter (and how often do you get to use that word!), with discussion about AHT. My pards and I elected to get a wet plate done by Mr. Szabo in our New York State Coats. Several sutlers and other people hanging around sutler row commented that they were excited to see a group in State Coats.

After further research(on google) I noted that many NY reenactment groups do not wear the state coat. This has many practical reasons including cost, availability, impression versatilility, and the historical fact that not every soldier from NY state wore a NY state coat. Images of the 93rd NY clearly reflect the variance in uniforms within a NY state regiment. We also know that the SNY jacket was the most issued of all State Pattern Jackets(to Federal Troops), and that these jackets were also issued to troops from states other than NY.

The fact remains that a lot of us could be wearing SNY jackets and aren't. The purpose of this poll is to see who is wearing NY state coats. If you post in response please clarify if your unit wears SNY jackets or not and feel free to elaborate on why.

P.S. Obviously Rebs may disregard this poll.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: New York State Coats

I frequently find opportunities to wear it. A pet impression is that of the 45th NY, which often features it. I break it out whenever I can, it's one of my favorites.

My avatar features it being worn in the context of a 41st NY impression, along with the kepi and Totenkopf insignia favored by the regiment.

[Milliron]

Re: New York State Coats

Shouldn't you wear a NY State jacket if you can document its use? If you can't I guess you shouldn't. Wouldn't that be your sole consideration? Maybe I'm missing something here.

[Son of Eire]

Re: New York State Coats

You should wear the state coat if you can document it though it would also be appropriate to wear a sack coat representing a substitution/or replacement. One often sees a mix of the sacks, frocks, and SNY jackets within regiments. The question was posed to test the prevalence of SNY jackets among reenactors. I'd also be interested to see if some NY units are opting for the sack coat for the sake of a versatile generic impression.

[Fenianboy]

Re: New York State Coats

I had Jim Newberry make me one back in the 70's and we used the Indian War buttons from S&S.Now I have both an Orchard Hill (the one Ed Averill researched) and a Daley.They are great look and unique part of an AOP impression.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: New York State Coats

I chose "I do not wear a NYS coat ever". I normally portray a Confederate NC troop but when we do Federal we will wear either the fatigue coat or frock coat to make a PEC appearance. Our Federal unit of choice is the 24th Michigan whom the 26th NC fought on the 1st day of Gettysburg. Both can be used for the PEC AoP troops with the frock preferred for the 24th MI. Western Fed troops for AoT is good PEC with sack coat and the dress coat also. The 26th NC ask that each member procures either a Frock or Sack coat, sky blue towsers and an undressed M1858 dress hat so we can do a 24th MI or PEC Federal impression.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: New York State Coats

Hi,

I would say wear the shell jacket if you have documentation that the unit that you are portraying wore these jackets. If you are looking at buying a new jacket, I would most certainly go with a sack coat, because it is good for nearly any unit.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: New York State Coats

I think my situation is an... interesting one. I can find no photographic documentation of the 70th NYSV wearing New York State jackets, let alone a single identified photograph (let me know if you are aware otherwise, pleease!). Only a newspaper clipping directly (http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/mil-hist.htm) pertaining to uniforming read:

MILITARY MOVEMENTS IN NEW YORK AND VICINITY.
EXCELSIOR BRIGADE.
Upwards of two hundred recruits have been sent forward to join this brigade within the last five days, fully uniformed and equipped.

Through my research, however, I was successfully able to note the jacket's prevalence in related regiments (71st, 72d). My guess is that with these similarities, the Excelsior Brigade (70-74th regiments) were issued both state jackets and fatigue blouses in at least half their brigade.

So, yes, I own a state jacket and wear it for my impression despite the possibility that they could have worn Daniel Boone-inspired buckskin trousers, for all I know!

[Prodical Reb]

Re: New York State Coats

Jason,
I guess you fall into "When portraying New York troops I wear the SNY Jacket " category?
Would this cover with or without documentation of what "X" NYS regiment wore as long as it is a NYS regiment?

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: New York State Coats

John,

God Bless you Son, I hope you're ready for some of the invective that will come out on this poll.

I would suggest you either change your top answer or add one to this poll that reads...

"I wear my NYS Jacket when documented history identifies it is appropriate for the unit and time frame..."

My NYS Jacket is my second most prized piece of kit after my 1842 Springfield, both of which can be categorized as 'specialty' items. When I am satisfied they are appropriate for the unit and time frame I use them. But if they are not, we need to be good stewards of history and make the correct decision not to bring them and use the right kit for the unit and period.

At Winter of 64, historical documentation showed a good number of NYS Jackets in the ranks so I was able to wear mine, but my faithful pumpkin-slinger had to remain behind because the Enfield was appropriate for the unit and time frame.

SO... having a NYS Jacket in the closet is a great addition to the kit, but it should only come out when it is documented to the unit and time frame.

OH Yeah... this is off topic but are you coming to the Irish Fest and are you bringing some of the cartridge formers? With the rain At High Tide I never did get one from you...

[Son of Eire]

Re: New York State Coats

Brother Peter! I am working on getting out to the Irish Festival, if I do I will surely have your formers. I know that my poll choices are, rather limited. My hope was that the #1 choice stood for with or without documentation and you could elaborate on that fact with a post. Polls by nature are limited in scope, but we have the ability to counteract that in this thread.

P.S. Jason- boy do I have a treat for you. I looked at the USAMHI's (United States Army Military Heritage Institute) digital image collection and found a photo of Col. W. Dwight of the 70th NYSV. In the background stands a private in, of all things an SNY jacket. So now you know, at least some of the men, for part of the war had SNY jackets.

[Duff]

Re: New York State Coats

Jason, I understand where you are coming from. All the photographic documentation I have seen of the 61st NY shows them, in spring 1863, wearing frocks coats, with a very small minority of men wearing NYS jackets. Our theory of why is that those men may have been wagoneers or something of that nature in which they would not wear out their coats as fast as regular troops. We also know they were issued NYS jackets early in the war (they were raised in fall 1861). We do not know if they were reissued after that or how long they lasted. Also,there is a post war photo of the surviving memebers of Co. C who are all wearing State Coats.


I wear a frock most of the time.

[MBBursig]

Re: New York State Coats

If there is documentation then go for the NYS Jacket. It adds so much more to a New Yorker impression.

I don't know, but from my vantage point at the 145th Gettysburg event (the other one not the authentic one...sorry...) I hardly saw any NYS Jackets being worn. I proudly wore it while representing the 45th NY on the first day's fighting, and then as the 52nd NY on the second day.

If added to a New Yorker's kit it looks great in the field.

Take a look at the Daybreak B'hoys and 52nd NY at the Von Stueben Day Parade a few years back. Apart from the fact that we are not regimented in our step, the NYS Jackets look sharp.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: New York State Coats

Hallo!

Moderator hat on...

I am not sure that this thread and poll is "Authentic Campaigner" material as it seems to be drifting back-and-forth between what researched-and-documented units do and what the "rest" of the Civil War community does.

If the standard here is to strive for is to use what was researched and documented for a particular unit at a particular time and place, why are we concerned with individuals, units, and units whose Mental Pictures choose a lesser or no standard?

Or am I just reading this wrong or missing the point?

Moderator hat off...

When portraying Ohio troops researched and documented as having worn the "Ohio" infantry jacket, I wear the "Ohio" state jacket.

Curt

[Son of Eire]

Re: New York State Coats

My thinking behind this thread was to see the feasibility of fielding a company, battallion etc. outfitted in NY state jackets. People on sutler row at AHT were struck by seeing the SNY jackets and I started wondering if folks have them. If the mods think this poll too self indulgent or trivial, they may lock it down. For the record I proudly wear my SNY jacket when it is called for.