Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

[csuniforms]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

What I would like to see is a full accounting of what exactly comes in and goes out and for what for the entire foundation. A complete audit is needed. IF, they do need more cash, the audit will say so. IF a group of folks are paying exorbitant rents or the money is leaking out somewhere this will be shown in an audit. Without it we are just guessing as to what and where the money is going. This situation is nuts. I feel Gettysburg is a great and enduring historical spot, and attracts thousands of visitors every year for a reason. The whole reason why the new museum and all the foo-foo was built in the first place.
That said, a few people are making a lot of money. I always say if you want to know what is going on and where, "you have to follow the money." I am sure if someone donated $10 million dollars to the Museum tomorrow they would still charge $10 to get in. And, at what point is the building paid off? Will they reduce the fees then? Will someone step forward and work for $50 or $60 a year instead of $392 thousand. And, if his job was to bring in funds for the Museum, he must be doing a poor job if they have to raise fees.
I am sorry, but the whole new Museum thing was a fiasco from the start and continues to get worse. The whole project went millions of dollars over budget with little thought to the purpose of the museum, to preserve and display artifacts. The cyclorama is beautiful, but the movie was just OK, and I would not sit through it again. The Musuem display has some nice artifacts, but the old one in my opinion was better for my tastes. The book store in the old Museum was the best. The old Museum was set up for a pure historical in-depth review of the Battle and the town. You could get a licensed guide in the lobby, walk to the cemetery, and finish with a sandwich down the street. Visit the shops, all within walking distance-- Today, the museum charges a fee, the guides were forced to acquire a new headquarters, very few visit the cemetery, the museum shop is full of trinkets. I want to poke my eyes out!!! If you dont know any better, you get a sandwich in the museum, dont visit the town. AND, the displays were mismarked-- Some real historians were on board here!!!!--
I also heard a lot of Steinware avenue businesses are closing. I am sure these folks are happy with the new museum.
When some folks sense they can make a good dollar somewhere the so-called, "helpers and movers" come out. There is a saying, "those that say they are doing it for you, are usually doing it to you!"
A planned monorail??? If that happens:cry_smile

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[jfeagin]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

I don't want to hijack the thread but G'burg in general seems to be going downhill. At least from my view. 20 million ghost hunter tours and now it seems to be turning into the East Coast Sturgis for bikers. No offense to those that ride (I even appreciate a beautiful Harley even though I don't ride). But the noise from some of those pipes... Heck in Carroll Valley where I live (about 8 miles from G'burg) there are signs starting to appear showing a motorcycle and stating "Respect our quiet neighborhood". Anyhow businesses are hurting on Steinwher.

I am going overseas this fall (don't know where yet) and won't be back till 2011 for home leave so it will be "interesting" to see how G'burg is going. Well got to get back to sorting my things out and getting ready to sell the house.

On the way to Arlington, VA today I am going to see if they cut the grass yet on the battlefield... 25 cents says they haven't. Tough times...

As to the monorail... Well they used to have a trolley to little round top... so there is precedent.

John

[OldState]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

I must have gone to another visitor center. What used to arguably be the best CW exhibit in the Nation has in my opinion sunk to last place. You reference the MOC and the Confederate Memorial Hall as the same magnitude as Gettysburg and I think you ought to re-think that statement. These venues do not have the support of the CW community like GB does and still manage to put on a better display of artifacts than the new Disney GB center.

Part of the reason the GB visitor center is not meeting expenses is the absence of repeat visitors like myself who used to visit usually twice a year and have been doing so for 25 plus years. Would I pay 10.50 to see the collections in the old visitor center? The answer is Yes. In the old visitor center you could feel the magnitude and greatness of the battle through the exhibits. Sadly they are gone now.

I couldn't agree more. I currently have a job that takes me through the Harrisburg, Carlisle, Chambersburg, Gettysburg area at least once a month and I usually stop off and spend the night at Gettysburg. If I got into town early enough I would pop into the visitors center. That being said, I don't care for the new "Slavery Museum at Gettysburg". I still stopped in because it was a free Civil War fix for me. Since they started charging I have ventured past the bookstore once. Why? The new museum is not worth repeated views to me. The old museum....absolutely. I would pay $10 every time I was there if they had the artifacts they used to display. Even if I had to run through 1/3 of the museum (past the slavery stuff) to get to those displays.

To even compare this new Museum to the MOC is ludicrous to me. The MOC, in my opinion, is the single best museum in the country related to the CW. Well organized, tons of artifacts, and ever changing exhibits to show off all the stuff they don't have the room to show at one time. Memorial Hall in NOLA is also great. And right near the D-Day museum to boot!

I used to rank G-Burg's museum up there but not anymore. You can see more stuff at the Horse Soldier. :wink_smil

I will just spend more time on the battlefield.

[David Fox]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

This is an interesting thread to read and ruminate upon. May I add my own two bits? I may be the only fellow in this particular forum who honeymooned at Gettysburg. Just home from 'Nam, it may seem an odd choice, but the perverse peace of the place, hallowed by men who reared my grandfather (he who first took me there in '55) was palpable. I dote upon those monuments placed there by the returning vets themselves, men then my present age. My favourites are the very modest, nearly private First Shot obelisk west of Herr Ridge on the Chambersburg Pike and the odd tree stump with a bronze bird's nest build in. I recognize they are intrusive, but most of them meant a lot to the vets of the units honoured, so I honour them. The less said of the last three or four, the better. I've grown old with that ground. I take informal tours there and very much appreciate the current conscious effort to return the place to its 1863 appearance, an effort which was a fight from the beginning as I understand it. Praise be the tourist tower was demolished. May the great silver water tower abutting the cemetery go next. I enjoy the mix in town, vendors and bullet-pocked brick. It is, after all, a working community.
As to the visitor centre controvesy, I'm glad the land on the site of the old centre is being restored to some degree. I loved the old facility (the bathrooms within walking distance of so much else had a special allure), but recall with repugnance it housed cases with the skeletons of soldiers disinterred from the field to be gawked at my first trips there. I'll not visit the new centre often, but "free" costs somebody, and there's no sacred right that I have to have someone else bear that cost. If illegal peculations are afoot, one suspects the courts will address them. And I trust they will. It's why we're a nation to be ruled by law and not by men, something we've inherited from the sacrifices of the 1860s. I think Lincoln had something to say on the subject at Gettysburg on a November day in '63....

[csuniforms]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

For the majority of us, our first Civil War experiences from years ago were at places like Gettysburg Park or other Battlefields. Many say that there interest in the Civil War started with a trip to the Battlefield... Millions came to Gettysburg and all went through the old Museum and no one was adversely affected by the lack of a PC movie and a bunch of old Civil War stuff laying around. They liked it just me. It was nostolgic, just like your old neighborhood favorite hot dog stand or ice cream parlor with the wooden floors and electric ceiling fans from 1920 spinning overhead. New and improved is not always better.:wink_smil

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[OldState]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Free does cost someone. I don't have a problem with paying $10.50, its just that the new museum doesn't warrant repeat visits IMHO. As of now we still live in a free market society. If the visitors have decreased maybe the "market" feels the same way as I do.

I could feel better about the $10 if someone could tell me it was going toward all the work they have been doing to return the battle ground to its wartime appearance. The trees they took down near the Round Tops and Devils Den have improved my ability to conceptualize the fighting there immensely.

[bAcK88]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

That being said, I don't care for the new "Slavery Museum at Gettysburg". I still stopped in because it was a free Civil War fix for me. Since they started charging I have ventured past the bookstore once. Why? The new museum is not worth repeated views to me. The old museum....absolutely. I would pay $10 every time I was there if they had the artifacts they used to display. Even if I had to run through 1/3 of the museum (past the slavery stuff) to get to those displays.

Wow, I have to address this.

Now I do realize that the majority of the members on this forum are material culturalists, and many of us enjoy going to museums to look at certain objects, be it an article of clothing, accouterment, weapon, or flag. However,the majority of museum visitors are NOT material culturialists; they visit historical museums not to look at a woolen shirt or leather shoe. No, they are there to learn WHY the story that the museum is trying to tell is so important. Thus the Gettysburg museum (and for that matter any museum dealing with the American Civil War) needs to address the reasons that brought two hostile armies together in combat. Why were these soldiers fighting?

And apparently that answer is just too hard for some people to understand. These two armies weren't at Gettysburg because the town was a strategic crossroads, or that Confederates were looking for shoes. These two armies were there to decide once and for all the question that had caused so many problems since the birth of the Republic; would America truly be free, or would slavery still exist. This is the reason why two sections of the country would fight 4 long, bloody years, costing the lives of 600,000 American boys.

To truly honor the courage of both Federal and Confederate soldiers, we need to understand why they were fighting. It is correct to say that after soldiers on both sides had enlisted and seen combat, many stayed in the ranks because of peer pressure. But that does not answer why they rushed to the colors or what kept them fighting. This war was about slavery. The Confederates were fighting to protect a way of life that they thought was ordained by God. And while many Federal soldiers initially enlisted to bring back the Southern states into the Union, after seeing slavery first hand, many soldiers advocated the destruction of the peculiar institution if America would truly be a beacon of freedom for the rest of the world. If we skip this in our interpretation of the Civil War, we not only dishonor the memory of these soldiers, but we dishonor ourselves for we must remember all our history, both the pleasant parts and the shameful ones. And thankfully more and more museums are telling every story.

To even compare this new Museum to the MOC is ludicrous to me. The MOC, in my opinion, is the single best museum in the country related to the CW. Well organized, tons of artifacts, and ever changing exhibits to show off all the stuff they don't have the room to show at one time. Memorial Hall in NOLA is also great. And right near the D-Day museum to boot!

I will just spend more time on the battlefield.

We agree on something. To compare the MOC and the museum at Gettysburg is ludicrous. Gettysburg is on the cutting edge of public history while the MOC is extremely dated, which can be seen by the visitation records of both museums. And while the MOC is trying to tell all the stories, they're not there yet.

Bill

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Hallo!

Less filling!
Tastes great!!

"And apparently that answer is just too hard for some people to understand. These two armies weren't at Gettysburg because the town was a strategic crossroads, or that Confederates were looking for shoes. These two armies were there to decide once and for all the question that had caused so many problems since the birth of the Republic; would America truly be free, or would slavery still exist. This is the reason why two sections of the country would fight 4 long, bloody years, costing the lives of 600,000 American boys."

IMHO, this reads like one of the new half wall sized "posters" I would expect to read at a "contemporary" concept museum.

I believe one would be truly hard-pressed to have pulled a Billy or a Johnny out of the ranks there on July 1, 2, or 3, 1863 and find him thinking, verbalizing, or even waxing on his being there there to decide once and for all the question that had caused so many problems since the birth of the Republic; would America truly be free, or would slavery still exist. Or that that is the reason why two sections of the country would fight 4 long, bloody years, costing the lives of 600,000 American boys."

It may well been true in the end, but IMHO still.. was not why the two armies or the men in them "were there."

"Well Bill, I know I done asked you this a hundred times in the past three years, but why are you a-fightin' ag'in?"

"Well not John, I done answered you that a hundred and one times in the past three years, but to decide once and for all the question that had caused so many problems since the birth of the Republic; would America truly be free, or would slavery still exist."

This is starting to push across the Modern Politics line of the political isues of modern museum display theory and practice moreso than any historical or
hobby-related discussion of value to the AC Membership.

Folks seemingly "in" the world of "contemporary museum political and social science" are at odds with those who are not.

Being one who is not "in" or "with it"... history books educate as to the history while museums preserve, concerve, present, display, and factually interpret the artifacts to supplement history...not socio-politically create, craft, or spin it.

When the message becomes more important than the media, media loses to it, and history suffers.

Last summer, standing in a Nazi gas chamber, I did not need wall sized super posters to "get it." Or standing next to a pile of shoes, or a pile of spectacles, I did not need a video screen program on WWII.

Others' mileage, and divisions, will vary...

Curt

[csuniforms]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Well, "Why we fought the Civil War" question is a good one, it is certainly open to interpretation. The extension of slavery West, the Constitutional questions, the seizure of Federal property and arsenals, the abolition of slavery all over the world, and the financial condition of the country, industrial vs. agricutural, and dont forget the mindset of all those immigrants who came to America to obtain freedom!! and the grand experiment of your countries young Democracy when everyone else in the World had a King or Emporer in charge.-- All of it played a part... Agreed-- and we Living Historians are geared towards material culture... what we used to see a lot of at the Museum. Are we going to have future Living Historians who only discuss, "the slavery issue" in the future, becaue that is all they see???

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[OldState]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Curt pretty much sums it up for me.

When I go to a battle field I want to see and learn things about the battle. I think most people that attended high school understand generally what the war was fought over, especially those who would be inclined to visit a battle field to begin with. There is the National Civil War Museum up the road that deals in depth with why the men fought. The amount of space dedicated to slavery is way out of place here. And, if we are to "keep it real" it has much more to do with modern socio-political reasons that it does with helping people interpret the battle. To give the impression that the war was simply fought over slavery does a disservice to the men who fought it. From the evidence I have seen, the war was fought over secession. The main issue for secession was slavery. I see a HUGE difference.
If you truely believe that that Johnny Reb and Billy Yank embarked on the Gettysburg campaign with the issue of slavery at the front of their thought I would advise you to read more memoirs and diaries.Modern political sensitivities should not be allowed to infect history.

Obviously many other agree, as visitors to the museum are way off from projections

[NYCivilWar]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

I think most people that attended high school understand generally what the war was fought over, especially those who would be inclined to visit a battle field to begin with. There is the National Civil War Museum up the road that deals in depth with why the men fought. The amount of space dedicated to slavery is way out of place here.

Seriously?

I'd hazard a guess that the "average American" can't differentiate the Revolutionary War from the Civil War. If were're relying on what it taught in high schools coupled with a general disinterestedness by the average teen, then we've got some problems....

On the museum... (I'm not defending that there is a charge to get in here)

First, since Gettysburg National Military Park holds the largest collection of Civil War artifacts within the NPS it almost has an obligation to tell the story of the American Civil War.

Second, If anyone can tell me how an entire room of guns, bullet riddled furniture, pistols, or uniforms interprets the battle of Gettysburg then PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me. I'd bet that upwards of 75% of visitors that come to Gettysburg for the first time have little to no knowledge on the battle. By seeing 175 muskets, with little to no description, gives the visitor absolutely no idea of what happened at Gettysburg

Third, Context is key...The old museum grouped like objects together. Here's a perfect example. In the old meuseum there used to be a display of furniture that was either hit by bullets or somehow used during the battle. Cool...but where was that furniture during the battle, how was it hit, who owned it??? Today in the museum those pieces of furniture have been split up and put in context. For instance a drop-leaf table that belonged to the Wiekert family is on display in the Aftermath Gallery. The table was used by a surgeon who operated on patients in rear of Little Round Top after the battle. Another example... A chest of drawers that belonged to the Trostle family is on exhibit in the 2nd day gallery. The chest was hit during the fierce fighting around the house where the 9th Mass. Battery and 21st Mississippi slugged it out. That story is told and the piece is put in context. These objects are put in context to help visitors understand the battle and how the objects were used by the participants.
Not only do the objects need to be placed in context, Gettysburg needs to be placed in context. If you don't understand why the war was brought on and the course of the war up to Gettysburg, Please tell me how you can understand what happened at Gettysburg

Fourth, Complaints about there not being enough on display...Any museum professional will tell you than no museum displays more than 10% of its collection at any one time
(10% being on the very very high end). Whether it is Victorian dolls, or a thimbles museums just can't display their entire collection. They don't have enough resources to do this. Another point fans of the old museum fail to see is that since mass quantities of the same object (guns, pistols etc.) were removed that, in turn, allowed for other objects to be put on display that haven't seen the light of day in decades. For example the ambrotype of George Sandoe and his wife (first casualty in Gettysburg), a Patriotic Apron worn by a PA woman, Henry Mayo's Drum (147th NYVI), a signal corps cartridge box complete with rare signal flares, Pvt. John Cassidy's bible etc. etc. My point here being that by taking out the multiples of objects has allowed for other objects with a direct Gettysburg connection to be exhibited.

Fifth, Complaints about the new museum being a "slavery museum..." IF you have ever ACTUALLY been to the museum, and IF you can COUNT, you'd see that of the 18 galleries in the museum ONE (that's one more than zero, and less than two) is devoted to the causes of the American Civil War. If you take out the space for the video screen in this "causes" gallery it is the smallest of the entire museum. So, how this is a "slavery museum" I fail to see.

Finally, the majority of us on this forum are gear/uniform/musket junkies (call it what you will) and I can see how there is a warm place for the old museum in your hearts, but remember we are all ALREADY interested in the American Civil War. Of course we are going to like to see 10,000 muskets lining a hallway. BUT, the old museum, plain and simple, generally told us nothing about the battle of Gettysburg, or the Civil War for that matter.

With that said...go ahead and tear me apart...

[garyjd]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Gettysburg Daily's thread concerns the fee increase and has some interesting comments and observations. ~Gary

http://www.gettysburgdaily.com/?p=4301

[Dignann]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Price hike to hurt businesses?

Gettysburg Visitor Center will charge $10.50 for adult admission starting tomorrow

By ERIN JAMES

The Evening Sun [Hanover, Penn.]
June 14, 2009

When a family of two parents and two children walks through the doors of the Gettysburg National Military Park Museum and Visitor Center tomorrow, they'll need to shell out $34 if they expect to see any Civil War-era rifles.
Just last week, that price would have been $26. And a year ago, there was no charge at all to see the museum's collection of battle-related artifacts.

But that changed when the Gettysburg Foundation - which operates the new museum on behalf of the National Park Service - projected a $1.78-million annual shortfall in revenue. Free admission subsequently became $7.50 for adults.

Now the cost is being hiked to $10.50.

For this latest price adjustment, Gettysburg Foundation spokeswoman Dru Neil said this week that two factors largely motivated the change.

One is a need to maintain a revenue stream that will allow the foundation to meet its financial obligations.

But the other, Neil said, is a need to stay in line with the cost of comparable Gettysburg attractions based on what surveyed visitors say they are willing to pay.

"We were priced pretty far below what other venues were charging," Neil said.

Asked for examples, she mentioned the Shriver House Museum and ghost tours.

But Nancie Gudmestad, director of the Shriver House, didn't take long to think when asked for her reaction to the admission-fee increase - and the rationale behind it.

"The Shriver House doesn't cost as much as that," she said.

In fact, admission to the historic museum is only $7.50 for adults and $5 for children ages 7 to 12. According to a price index listed on the Gettysburg Convention and Visitors Bureau Web site, most other comparable attractions in Gettysburg charge less than $10.50 for admission.
Neil, however, said the visitor center's new cost still is within an affordable price range for visitors who want to explore a state-of-the-art museum, see a 22-minute film and view the Cyclorama painting. Officials base that assumption on comprehensive surveys and comment cards from visitors.

Asked whether the price increase is in an attempt to compete with local business, Neil said that's absolutely not the case. The foundation simply has instituted a price officials believe visitors are willing to pay.

"We certainly don't want to appear to be competitive," she said.

Gudmestad, however, said she's concerned the foundation's decision first to charge admission and now to increase its price might deter visitors from coming to Gettysburg at all.

"They're way above us if they're trying to stay in line with the other businesses here in town," she said. "I just don't want them to scare people away from Gettysburg thinking this is way too expensive of a town to come and visit."

Neither is Eric Uberman, owner of the American Civil War Museum, convinced of the foundation's assertion that a higher admission price to the visitor center is necessary.

In fact, he said, he believes this has been the plan all along.

"They literally have done what they fought to do, and that is monopolize the visitors' time," he said. "They're going to get as much out of the customer as they can. And the more they get per customer, the less the (town) gets."

Park spokeswoman Katie Lawhon did not return calls seeking comment Thursday, and neither she nor Superintendent John Latschar - who made the final decision to both charge admission and raise the price - were in the office Friday.

Every ticket sold at the new museum goes back into the museum through four avenues of the foundation's operating budget.

The first priority, officials have said, is repayment of debt on construction of the new visitor center. The Gettysburg Foundation borrowed $15 million in tax-free bonds to complete the project, and those bonds must be repaid at the end of the foundation's 20-year agreement to operate the facility.

Second is the operating and maintenance expenses of the new center, such as utilities, custodial services, building and equipment maintenance, and staff costs.

Third is the establishment of a building and equipment reserve fund and an exhibit reserve fund. Each year, the foundation is required to set aside funds from the operating revenues to establish reserve accounts for future equipment and building repairs per its agreement with the National Park Service.

And finally, funds from the operating budget will go toward a private donation to the Gettysburg National Military Park and the National Park Service. The donations are required to equal the amount the two agencies received from bookstore sales in the old visitor center, as a replacement for those funds, which were used to pay for ranger and other programs.

In addition to ticket sales, the foundation also makes money through its sale of souvenirs in the gift shop and food at the Refreshment Saloon.

The foundation is extremely cognizant of its four financial obligations, which Neil described as the catalyst for the latest price increase.

"We want to make sure that we're in line to do those things," she said.

Plans for a new Gettysburg visitor center stretch back more than a decade, and park officials always had insisted on building a museum that would be open free of charge.

But five months after the center's April 2008 opening, officials said they could not stay afloat without charging admission.

But that's not the case this time. Neil said the admission fee appears to have solved the revenue problem, though she said some data suggests there could be shortfalls in the future.

The Refreshment Saloon and the gift shop are both running ahead of projections, Neil said.

And so far, 1.2 million people have been counted as walking through the museum's doors.

With only a year of data collected so far, Neil said officials "just want to make sure" the foundation will meet its financial obligations.

"That's priority number one for us," she said.

http://www.eveningsun.com/localnews/ci_12585504

Eric

[dusty27]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

Hmmmmnnnn...since I don't work for a Museum, and don't plan to...maybe my views are a little skewed from the 'other majority' of posters in this thread who currently work for museums, or are studying to do such...

You know it's often such that the people that NEED these places the most, are often the ones who can't afford such...I remember many times when my Boy Scout Troop visited Gettysburg, we always did the Visitor's Center, but never did the Cyclorama...why?? Because even the 'paltry' former fee for the Old Cyclorama Building was more than some of our scouts could afford, coming from single-parent broken homes...sometimes it was generous donations of the leaders just to get these guys out to an event...and when there were brothers...well, that made things awfully tough.

While no doubt, many people can afford to pay for such activities, and will...what about the hundreds of other people passing through Gettysburg, or visiting the Battlefield who'll now be choosing (because it's their right as Americans), whether they do lunch, or get a taste of history by Visiting the Visitor's Center.

Paul, earlier in the thread, you talk about the administration funding welfare instead of parks and then you make this argument. You can't have it both ways.

[JimKindred]

Re: Gettysburg Visitor's Center hikes fee to $10.50

"We were priced pretty far below what other venues were charging," Neil said.

The article fails to point out how many of those other venues were receiving Federal funding. It is only natural that a privately funded operation will have to charge more than an operation partially supported with tax dollars.