Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

-one thing that is not short in this community....opinions.

Just a few bullet thoughts/opinions:

-it isn't a requirement to have a close tie to New Orleans in order to have an opinion...but its a bit late now to chime in.
-there are things in life that need to be left alone, this was one of them.
-to base a modern (political correct) opinion on the "reasons" of the placement of the monuments (back when they were) is rather silly,
-the danger of this movement is... its headed by individuals who know nothing of history.
-this confused creole mayor has nothing but his eyes on congress, and he doesn't care what he destroys in the process.
-this creole mayor would sell his soul to the devil if it would get him time on TV.

your millage may vary.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Like Eric, the irony is spilling over in this thread.
- The arguments being made to remove monuments, markers, museums, ...and, yes, corpses... is one where the sum total of the existence an accomplishment of an entire generation of an entire region of the country has been reduced to a single concept. The history of the American South, reduced to a bumper sticker.

- Yet, when the AC posts a poll, suddenly the issue has been oversimplified. Suddenly, the history doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

[john duffer]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Like Eric, the irony is spilling over in this thread.
- The arguments being made to remove monuments, markers, museums, ...and, yes, corpses... is one where the sum total of the existence an accomplishment of an entire generation of an entire region of the country has been reduced to a single concept. The history of the American South, reduced to a bumper sticker.

- Yet, when the AC posts a poll, suddenly the issue has been oversimplified. Suddenly, the history doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

Once again - where's the "like" button.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Like Eric, the irony is spilling over in this thread.
- The arguments being made to remove monuments, markers, museums, ...and, yes, corpses... is one where the sum total of the existence an accomplishment of an entire generation of an entire region of the country has been reduced to a single concept. The history of the American South, reduced to a bumper sticker.

- Yet, when the AC posts a poll, suddenly the issue has been oversimplified. Suddenly, the history doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

With all respect John, I think the two specific examples I provided -- Alexandria and Baltimore -- show that the issue is not being oversimplified by the cities making these judgments. They're trying to make a distinction between memorials that have meaning for the city and those that are mere propaganda for the "Lost Cause." In New Orleans' case all fell into the latter category. It might have been different for Beauregard if his statue had presented him in his post war career, wearing a suit, but it didn't.

In that context, the question as posed isn't just an oversimplification, it's a false dichotomy. Earlier posts pointed this out in calling for at least the third option of "depends" -- that's how the localities involved have approached it.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

A bigger question, it seems to me -- or at least one more relevant to the mission of the AC -- is the extent to which the moderators wish to turn the "preservation" forum into a whine cellar for complaints about contemporary culture and politics.

If you really want to do that, by all means go ahead, but I wish you'd refrain from blessing either side of the debate with the imprimatur of "The Authentic Campaigner."

"That implies there's some kind of consensus among us, which there isn't, and that a self-selected group of reenactors have some valid contribution to make to local politics, which they don't." - Michael Schaffner

It is hard to take any of your points seriously when you refer to the effort to save monuments as a "whine cellar" and belittle a majority of living historians who oppose this movement as a "self-selected" group.

[GrayCaptain]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?



History cannot and should not be changed. I strongly believe the statues should stay.. Next thing you know they will want to dig up all the graves of all the confederate soldiers who died..........

[NMVolunteer]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Hitler and Stalin then?

All of the Hitler statues came down in 1945, for a good reason. I know the Baltic states wanted to take down their Stalin and Lenin statues in 1991. Given what Stalin did to the Baltic peoples, I would not be surprised if people compared Stalin statues in Baltic nations to Davis or Forrest statues in towns with high African-American populations. But I do agree with the above suggestions of an "it depends" option. Since it always depends on context.

[bean_counter]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

"you're still allowed to do this??"

- spectator in Washington Park, Ottawa, IL this afternoon after we fired three volleys and I blew Taps. By the soldiers' memorial, yards from the Lincoln-Douglas debate statues. And yes, we were in blue.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

All of the Hitler statues came down in 1945, for a good reason. I know the Baltic states wanted to take down their Stalin and Lenin statues in 1991. Given what Stalin did to the Baltic peoples...

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/o/one-day-in-the-life-of-ivan-denisovich/book-summary

[Cpt Boone]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

The question should be asked, does removing the monuments solve anything that really matters?

Also, keep in mind this doesn't end with Confederate Monuments. Confederate Memorial Hall is on the Take It Down New Orleans list of things to be removed or changed. As well as Andrew Jackson who saved New Orleans in 1815.

So where do you all think this ends? This is just the beginning and Washington, Madison, and Jefferson are targets as well.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

I support removing 20th century monuments to Confederate leaders that aren't on a battlefield or in a historic site not connected to them. Those aren't historical in any way in my opinion. Saying that a New Orleans statue of Jeff Davis made in 1911 is historic is akin to saying my Armisport Enfield is historic.

Whaaaaaat?

Those monuments have a history of their own and were placed by the veterans, their families and their widows themselves postwar. The history of the war didn't end in 1865, y'know. The legacy remains with us today.

Censoring ANY part of history, even postwar, reeks of Orwellian thoughtcrimes. ANY living historian that loves and cherishes all history good/bad/ugly, should feel this way.

Also, tearing open the scabs of old wounds only foments division in our Union that some want to see happen to their political benefit. Don't give them the option to harm. Let people have their heroes, even if you don't like them. Teaching factual historical record will deem those heroes worthy of honor or not.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

A bigger question, it seems to me -- or at least one more relevant to the mission of the AC -- is the extent to which the moderators wish to turn the "preservation" forum into a whine cellar for complaints about contemporary culture and politics.

If you really want to do that, by all means go ahead, but I wish you'd refrain from blessing either side of the debate with the imprimatur of "The Authentic Campaigner."

"That implies there's some kind of consensus among us, which there isn't, and that a self-selected group of reenactors have some valid contribution to make to local politics, which they don't." - Michael Schaffner

It is hard to take any of your points seriously when you refer to the effort to save monuments as a "whine cellar" and belittle a majority of living historians who oppose this movement as a "self-selected" group.

It would also be hard to take any of my points seriously if you don't read them, which is already kind of obvious by the way you worded the poll. ;)

- - - Updated - - -

Whaaaaaat?

Those monuments have a history of their own and were placed by the veterans, their families and their widows themselves postwar. The history of the war didn't end in 1865, y'know. The legacy remains with us today.

Censoring ANY part of history, even postwar, reeks of Orwellian thoughtcrimes. ANY living historian that loves and cherishes all history good/bad/ugly, should feel this way.

Also, tearing open the scabs of old wounds only foments division in our Union that some want to see happen to their political benefit. Don't give them the option to harm. Let people have their heroes, even if you don't like them. Teaching factual historical record will deem those heroes worthy of honor or not.

For another perspective on how people were honoring their heroes, you can juxtapose the date that each statue went up with some of the other events taking place that year, e.g. -- http://www.chesnuttarchive.org/class...able_year.html

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

The war is over, the country is reunited, and Confederate history is American history.

'Nuff said.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

For another perspective on how people were honoring their heroes, you can juxtapose the date that each statue went up with some of the other events taking place that year, e.g. --

It would also be interesting to look at the year each statue went up with the number of years it took to raise funds for the statue.

...My stats profs in college used to say "correlation doesn't equal causation".

And I remain, a proud member of the post hoc ergo propter hoc mess.

[Cotton Trash]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Any one who ask, " What's Next" ?? well if you remove the monuments to adjust and forget history, you will need to change the name of ALL Southern States involved in the Rebellion that succeeded from the Union.. I wonder what Georgia's new name will be or if it will be recognized on a map as the year it became a state 1788. Possibly a parallel number like the one the divides North Korea from South Korea, or the tiny section in Norther Iraq where the Kurdish people lived after the Gulf War where they were safe from Saddam Hussein,just food for thought.