Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

[Eric Tipton]

In another thread, it was suggested that there is no consensus among the "Authentic Campaigner" community regarding the removal of Confederate Monuments, and I thought, "What a great poll question". So, here it is. Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Civil War Monuments? We will leave this open for ten days.

[Jubilo]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

I oppose the removing of any historic monuments.
David Corbett

[LeftCoastYank]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Perhaps there should be a third "it depends" option?

[KPavia]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

"It depends" would be a great option.

But I oppose removing historical monuments also. However...

I support removing 20th century monuments to Confederate leaders that aren't on a battlefield or in a historic site not connected to them. Those aren't historical in any way in my opinion. Saying that a New Orleans statue of Jeff Davis made in 1911 is historic is akin to saying my Armisport Enfield is historic.

[Drygoods]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Removing the monuments is plain and simple vandalism. The purpose of a monument is to remain forever, lest we forget.

[Heather Sheen]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

In my opinion, our society needs more reminders of history, not less. History helps us learn from our mistakes and capitalize on our past successes.

Obviously it's not a good idea to glorify bad people or horrible events with monuments. But so far, I have yet to see them going after statues of, say, Hitler or Lenin. :) Jefferson, Lee, Beauregard... these were all men that even in their own time were recognized as being honorable, good men. Whether their views were misguided or not, our society needs more role models like these.

And for the record, there are statues of Wallace and Bruce all over Scotland and it doesn't seemed to have created civil unrest in Great Britain. :)

[Dusty Merritt]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

I oppose the removing of any historic monuments.
David Corbett

Hitler and Stalin then?

- - - Updated - - -

In my opinion, our society needs more reminders of history, not less. History helps us learn from our mistakes and capitalize on our past successes.

Obviously it's not a good idea to glorify bad people or horrible events with monuments. But so far, I have yet to see them going after statues of, say, Hitler or Lenin. :) Jefferson, Lee, Beauregard... these were all men that even in their own time were recognized as being honorable, good men. Whether their views were misguided or not, our society needs more role models like these.

And for the record, there are statues of Wallace and Bruce all over Scotland and it doesn't seemed to have created civil unrest in Great Britain. :)

Recognizing men like Davis as being "honorable" and "good" is exactly the problem! The man proclaimed that captured black soldiers and their officers could be turned over to the state governments "to be dealt with according to the laws of said States," i.e., executed for slave insurrection. He extended Confederate soldiers' enlistment terms and imposed conscription in 1862, thus not only prolonging his armed revolt against the US government, but forcing Southerners to die in it against their will, all the while authorizing brutal retaliations against Southern Unionists. Our society needs a role model like him like it needs Dancing with the Stars.

[Michael Semann]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Dusty,

Along your line of thinking, you won't mind ripping down monuments to Lincoln (who openly avowed that black people were inferior to white), Grant (Vehemently antisemitic), and Sherman (a war criminal in every sense of the term)?

[Ambrose Bierce]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Anyone want to walk through the Arch at Palmyra, Syria? Oh, wait, you can't....

I am enjoying the energy and passion of this poll. Long overdue.

[Dusty Merritt]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Dusty,

Along your line of thinking, you won't mind ripping down monuments to Lincoln (who openly avowed that black people were inferior to white), Grant (Vehemently antisemitic), and Sherman (a war criminal in every sense of the term)?

Honestly, I'd be happy to hurl them all into the sea and replace them with memorials to the enlisted men and boys who served under them, many of whom didn't even get the benefit of a marked grave. Our maybe we could use the public space to build shelters for our homeless vets.

But I also wouldn't equate Lincoln or Grant's bigotry to Davis wanting to line up black POWs and shoot them. I'm afraid to open up the ol' Sherman can o' worms though...

[ktulu983]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

This is a very dangerous precedent to set...

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Do you support the police killing a person?

That depend on the situation.

You are making a complex issue a yes/no question... and that is not the solution.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

Do you support the police killing a person?

That depend on the situation.

You are making a complex issue a yes/no question... and that is not the solution.

Thomas:

With all due respect, I can't get over the irony of your post. The question is worded this way quite intentionally. Do you support the "current movement to remove Confederate Monuments?"

The current movement attempts to portray the Civil War in simple terms. That is, if you were a supporter of the Confederacy, you were in favor of slavery. Period. As students of the war, we know that it was a lot more complex than that. Essentially, this movement is in favor of polarizing the causes of the war for modern political gain.

So, the question is simple. Do you support the movement to remove monuments, as it is, or not?

[Stephen Lunsford]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

My fear, as it has been since these issues have started, is that the museums, cemeteries and battlefields will be next and last but not least our hobby itself.. I agree that maybe some of these statues to Confederate figures don't belong in non-significant areas and the word is "move them to a museum" or "move them to a battlefield" where they belong. But's it's only a matter of time till that is the next target. And I think that's the main thing here, we're not just talking about this current issue because it will soon be an issue for all of us who appreciate history if it continues on this path. We will have to keep a very sharp eye on every Cemetery, battlefield and museum of significance to the war.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Do You Support the Current Movement to Remove Confederate Monuments?

I agree with those saying the poll presents a false choice so, while obviously not otherwise reluctant to voice an opinion, I won't cast a vote.

In some cases where towns have begun discussing their Confederate monuments the question has involved alternatives -- moving, not removing, or placing interpretive markers. In Alexandria, VA, for example, the city has proposed moving a memorial to citizens who served as rebel soldiers from the middle of the main street (where in the past it's had several unfortunate encounters with pick up trucks) to one of the near corners and placing an interpretive marker next to it.

In Baltimore a commission recommended removing monuments to Taney and Lee/Jackson (a single monument) but keeping one to Confederate servicemen and one to women of the Confederacy, but with interpretive markers. The first two weren't considered part of the city's history but the latter two were.

Unfortunately many people react to all proposals to move or reinterpret with the same level of resistance one would expect had someone proposed complete destruction instead. Similarly, this poll addresses the issue as a simple, binary, either/or question.

And there is no "movement." There is no national organization equivalent to some kind of anti-UDC, gunning after all Confederate monuments. There are cities and states each trying to come to terms on their own with the emblems and postwar glorifications of the Confederacy and, as Baltimore shows, the decisions can lead to a variety of outcomes even in the same city.

If we suggest there's a single "movement" that grossly oversimplifies the questions of the war, we run the risk of creating a straw man and stuffing it with our own simplification of the issues being discussed in each of these cities.

And there is no "polarizing the causes of the war for modern political gain" now any more than there's ever been. The war was itself the most extreme form of polarization. And glorifying the Confederacy was, in some of these places, the "political correctness" of the 1880s through 1930s, expressing a severe racial polarization. Those places are different now, with more diverse populations that want their public spaces to make other statements about their values. We may see it as polarizing, but if true it's rather less severe than the earlier forms.

Let me suggest a possible alternative question for the poll:

Should towns and other localities have the right to choose where and how to memorialize their history, including whether or not to keep in place existing memorials, with or without interpretive markers?

That's the question in real life, and it still leaves open a broader topic for discussion on the AC, in another poll or thread:

What role should we take, as living historians, in judging or trying to influence those localities as they each struggle to come to terms with their own unique history and present?