How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: The biggest roadblock to authenticity...

I believe part of the problem with this debate is that it is difficult to use labels to piegon hole people. I know folks that go to one event are as hardcore as anyone and then go to a different type of event and are very "mainstream". I really hate the term "hardcore" because I know I am nothing close to the toughness of a real CW soldier. A challenging weekend of trying to imitate the life of a CW soldier does make me realize how tough those men were!
Attitude is very important. I have had some reenactors come out and do an authentic event and their kit was barely passable (and maybe not even passable). But, many were the best soldiers and campaigners I have met and they really are trying to progress and improve. I respect these fellas because they are trying to do it right and keep improving. I also agree that not all mainstreamers are farbs. The worst sort of reenactor is what I have termed "Regressives". These are reenactors whose impression has actually gotten worse over the years they have spent in reenacting. It would be nice to see more mainstream, progressive reenactors attend 2-3 authentic events a year to augment their mainstream event schedule. In the meantime, we should always try to keep the welcome mat out and the door open for these progressive reenactors to try some better events. I must remind myself that this has been a progression for me and others may not be as far along as I am. And if the door is closed on these progressing reenactors they may be turned off by "authentic" reenacting.

Regards,
Jim Butler
The SRR

[skunkboy]

Re: Avoiding Burnout

Curt,

Don't give up pard. I'd bet that there's a lot of people out there in cyberland that look up to you. I know I do. I got your recipe on how to rust blue your barrel and am about to try it. If it wasn't for your endeavors, a lot of greenhorns would be flailing away in their ignorance. I know I would be. Try adding mentor to your resume.

Sincerely and with best regards,
Patrick O'Melia
Poison Oak Mess.

[billwatson]

avoidance therapy

Jeff Myzie has the right idea. I just want to hammer on one suggestion he made: Volunteer for event staff once a year and you'll come away with a new perspective on just about everything. Or volunteer to perform some actual on-the-field function at an event, like running the commissary. You're now faced with real-world problems to solve with 19th century means and technologies. It's a good workout.

Event staff? Even if you can't stand the thought of missing a cph event from the perspective of participant, there's something to be said for volunteering to help out with the other kinds of events. I've functioned with the ANV's provost department and spent an entire weekend focusing on nothing but safety -- a common denominator across all reenacting. It was a useful thing to do, I got to see some folks I hadn't seen since I both moved north and intensified my history experiences, and a bunch of folks got to see that you can indeed sleep in honeysuckle under a bramble bush and awake refreshed.

Is there a difference between boredom and burnout? Dunno. Either way, the cure is to find something somewhere on the playing board that is "attractively challenging."

[Holy Joe]

1st Person Philosophies

Gents,

With respect to the "Authentic-Specific" and "PEC" crowds, I'm curious about the different materials you use when developing a first person impression. I've heard it said that the best first person impression is that of your very own....taking your own life experiences and building a fir-per 'character' from there. I think, however, it's proper to understand that while doing that, you may or may not be truly representing soldiers in X regiment. With that in mind, I pose this question for discussion;

Should the use of muster rolls, CSR's, pre-war census records & genealogical research form the basis of our fir-per impressions? If so, to what extent? (Should we actually use the soldier's names and documented lifestyles, or should we endeavor to make generalizations about the men, or both? How can we do this without being disrespectful?)

In the process of studying the CSR's of the men from the 15th TVI, I came across some very 'enriching' finds...there were many men with the same physical description, similar backgrounds (at least, as similar as possible considering the 150 year chasm that separates us from them), and a variety of 'descriptors' that would be good to put into a fir-per impression. Taking the research a step further and going to the federal census records allows us to gauge their family situations, their education level (literacy), marital status, personal wealth, and occupation. Beginning in 1880, the census holds information regarding the birthplace of the parents of the individual and the primary language spoken.

Obviously, these are great resources to consult when forming an impression. Many times, I fear, we ask too many "What should I wear", "how should I talk", "what should I talk about" questions without considering WHO we are and WHERE we're from. Understanding the cultural backgrounds of the individuals we 'portray' can answer most of these questions....if we only dig just a bit more.....But then again, how far should this be taken? Your thoughts are welcomed!

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

Gary

I start out with my profession, tool and die maker, as that is my profession and I could walk into a 19th century shop and feel as at home there with the terminoligy and skills as I would in a modern shop. Second I choose my ethicity native or immegrant depending on the unit I am protraying. If I am an immegrant I protray a German or Swede because I speak the languages, and have a good knowlege of the countries and their histories.

But for the most part I try and be Guy X, and just try and stay in FirPer.

[tomarch]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

I would agree with Bob. In addition, basing a firper loosly on your own life makes it far easier to interact with your comrades. Some of the best, sustained "moments" I've had were fuelled by this kind of conversation. :)

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

I would agree with Bob. In addition, basing a firper loosly on your own life makes it far easier to interact with your comrades. Some of the best, sustained "moments" I've had were fuelled by this kind of conversation. :)

Yea, I cannot pull of being a farmer any more than being an astronaut, but I can talk your ear off (and do) about lathes, plainers, shapers, milling machines, drill presses, or anything else pertaining to the everyday machineshop.

[Blum]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

“I cannot pull of being a farmer any more than being an astronaut”

i just begin to search for my first personn and the big problem i have is that most of the cw soldiers were farmer in their civil life and it is very different today.
I can not imagine to portray a farmer : i have not a farmer attitude, my hands are not those of a farmer, i know nothing to that job even if i can try to learn...

Ok, it is possible to portray a clerk or a small shop owner but if we must think at our unit level, everybody can not be a clerk...but every unit NEED credibles farmers !!!

How can we reenact farmers ???

[John Grimes]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

Jean-Marc,
While I disagree with you that every unit needs farmers, I will agree that the proportion of farmers was much higher than we see today. But not everyone was a farmer. My family line was city folk back as far a 1799 and I have found that "laborer" was a common profession too. But back to your question. If you really have the desire to include farming in your first person then there are plenty of resources available to you. Every state I ever lived in had a museum dedicated to early settlement in that region and often had various degrees of farming life represented. Also check their gift shop, often you will find books on the subject there. I have also found that local libraries often do not have the books in depth on many subjects I am researching, but luckily for me I live by a major university (UNC-Chapel Hill) that has several libraries and extensive collections on 19th century history and culture. If you are near a univeristy check it out.
v/r

[KarinTimour]

Learning Farming

Gentlemen:

You're absolutely right, we need more credible farmers! I think there are several answers to this -- first of all, getting some firsthand experience. Shaker Village has workshops that are a weekend in length called "So you want to be a farmer?" They give them at least twice a year, and you get a chance to practice harnessing a horse, plowing, and a number of different "on the farm skills". Rick Musselman's historic farming community in Ohio offers a similar experience. Another option is to get in touch with Hank and Linda Trent, who have weekends available at their totally recreated small Ohio farm, where you are in firper 24/7 for the entire weekend.

If you can't do that, do you know any farmers where you live now? Could you go spend a day or two following them around? Granted, plowing with a tractor isn't the same as plowing with a horse, but you will learn tons of valuable information about the way that a farmer eyes a field to sum up the crop, what present day farmers do with "wet" fields or poor soil, you might be able to have a chance to slop some hogs by hand or milk a cow by hand. My extended family is full of dairy farmers, and though I'm very much a city mouse, I've learned to milk a cow by hand. They're all hysterical that I wanted to learn -- they milk with machinery and modern "milking parlors," but they were also flattered that I valued their expertise enough to ask.

This topic has been discussed in the past on the civilan boards -- I can't remember if it's come up since the recent lost of our archives, but a search there might uncover additional resources. I do remember that there are agricultural survey documents that were compiled in our time period by geographic area which recap the total amount of different crops harvested by county and locallity for nearly all the states, which hold a wealth of information. Hank Trent and Rick Musselman have both discussed these resources in the past. I've not read them yet so I can't speak to this issue.

Read up on farming methods -- learn what steps are involved in planting, nurturing and harvesting tobacco, cotton, corn, and some of the more typical food crops of our time period. If you live in a cotton producing area, see if you can have the opportunity to spend an afternoon chopping cotton, or picking cotton by hand. Guarantee you it will completely expand your understanding of how hard life was in those days.

Rick Musselman's site has some wonderful background readings on period farming -- I'm afraid I lost the URL in a computer crash last year, but if Rick reads this, or someone else who has it, please post the link.

Read diaries of farmers -- I'll list a few from my library at home, but I'm sure others have better resources than I do -- it's one of the areas I'm always trying to learn about myself, so I"m looking forward to gaining some information in this discussion as well.

"A Piedmond Farmer" edited by Philip Racine (ISBN 0-87049-994-7) gives an amazing almost day by day diary of the work of a Piedmont farm in South Carolina. This is the farmer's "day book" where he reports on the work accomplished that day and plans the work to be done the next.

"The Gold Rush Widows of Little Falls" (ISBN 0-87351-250-2) talks about the community of Little Falls Minnesota, where many of the men went off to California to the Gold Rush, and reprints letters and other primary source documents about how the families left behind dealt with keeping the farm and the community going through the 1850s and 1860s.

"The Cotton Kingdom" by Frederick Law Olmstead (ISBN 0-394-33087-0) was written by the creator of Central Park in New York City in 1860, he combined pieces of three travel books he had previously published about travel in the South. You have to keep in mind that you're reading the observations of an urban Northern writer, but he does have some really good details about farming and planting in various Southern states.

"Yankee Drover" by Asa Sheldon, (ISBN 0-87451-439-8) is a first person autobiography printed in 1862 of a farmer/drover/teamster/saw-mill owner in the rural areas just outside of Boston, Massachusetts between 1788 and 1862. Lots of information in this one about planting by signs, livestock care, tending hops, and how a farmer would think about the commercial and economic issues of raising his family's subsistance.

"Slavery and Freedom in the Rural North: African Americans in Monmouth County, New Jersey, 1665-1865" by Graham Hodges (ISBN 094-5611251-6) focuses on the issue of slavery, freedmen, emancipation and abolition, but all of it is set in a rural area, and most of the slaves it is talking about were rural farm workers, so there is quite a bit in here about the daily tasks they were doing.

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
"The Stories in the Socks" Women in the Civil War Conference, Richmond, VA, June, 2004
Period Knitting -- Socks, Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Hank Trent]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

While it may work for typical/fictional portrayals, using one's own life doesn't work if you're at an event where it's expected for you to portray a real person. I find that happens about half the time for me, and then it's just a matter of doing the best job you can with what shows up when you find out more about whoever you're assigned, even if it's not what you'd prefer or what seems to be the best fit. A lot of first person advice is geared toward doing what's easiest, but there are other options as well.

Many times, I fear, we ask too many "What should I wear", "how should I talk", "what should I talk about" questions without considering WHO we are and WHERE we're from. Understanding the cultural backgrounds of the individuals we 'portray' can answer most of these questions....if we only dig just a bit more.....But then again, how far should this be taken? Your thoughts are welcomed!

I find the most useful part of researching a real person's background is trying to figure out what sort of person he was, so I can use that to help decide how he'd react to whatever happens during an event.

For example, the man I got assigned recently for an upcoming event, came from a family that seemed to seek out high-risk things. His elderly father and some relatives took off with the 49'ers for California, while he and his brother worked for a while on log drives on the river, an extremely dangerous occupation, and a cousin was killed by a mob for repeatedly speaking out on abolitionism. While those things might be interesting to talk about specifically, what they also indicate to me, is that I should be portraying this man as someone who isn't going to complain about hardship or show fear. That's just the opposite of a real person I was assigned a couple years ago, who'd lived in cities all his life, had had a desk-job type of position in the army, and was described in a letter as being in a bad mood because he'd just been transfered into the field where he'd have to endure some hardship.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Holy Joe]

Re: 1st Person Philosophies

I find the most useful part of researching a real person's background is trying to figure out what sort of person he was, so I can use that to help decide how he'd react to whatever happens during an event.

Excellent point, Hank. Perhaps I failed to articulate my question properly, as most of the discussion thus far relates to how one 'creates' a first person impression rather than how far should we go with it. Hank, I think you'd agree with me on this, but I consider 'enacting' or interpretation as an artistic form of storytelling (in this case, communicating the historical significance or creating an authentic vignette of a non-fictional event). I do agree, that many times a PEC approach is called for, but also realize the need for specificity in an impression.

With that in mind, I'm curious if anyone else has developed a fir-per directly from research of the individuals involved. There are great resources out there to develop these fir-per impressions, and I'm curious as to what extent they are being utilized among the C/P/H rank & file. Please add your experiences interpreting/'enacting' these specific fir-per impressions here (see Hank's post).

Thanks!

[tr17]

English Mess Tins

I'm looking for information on the black (painted cloth?) covers issued with English mess tins that were occassionaly issued with the I & C knapsacks during the war. Anything would be helpful i.e. dimensions, material, etc., or even the name of a sutler that sells one.

Tim Ruyle

[Charles Heath]

Re: English Mess Tin Covers

Tim,

I regret to say I have not purchased a cover nor the straps for the British Mess tin, but I did inquire about them through this fellow a couple of years ago, and he seemed like a very reasonable person, at least via the Internet. At the time, he was one of the few sources for real white buff leather, so that was a good indication, but I cannot vouch for the authenticity of his production. Be that as it may, the website is worth a good look, as some of the other gear often mentioned is shown with several different regiments.

Thin Red Line
Wynnstay House, Spa Road, Llandrindod Wells, Powys, Wales. LD1 5EY. UK
Phone (01597) 823272 Fax (01597) 824505

Price list, in Pounds:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thinred/valises_1854.htm

A little hard to see, but useful as to how the Brits wore some of their gear:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thinred/collection/99th.htm

Catalog page:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thinred/catalogue.htm

He took the time to explain to me about the different straps, the way the cover was supposed to work with the "Trotter" knapsack's '54 and '56 variants, and a few other odds and ends. Most of that info is just filed away with what may be a 16 or so page CMH article on the subject of British and Canadian equipment. Most sadly, there is no label or source attached to the article in this bound collection. Not much help, but it is at least a clue to some additional info. Maybe someone else has this article on hand and can add a citation.

Pages 17 & 18 - "The kidney or D-section mess-tins were introduced in 1814 and used practically unchanged until replaced with rectangular aluminum mess-tins in 1939. This surely must be the record for longevity for any item of personal kit in the history of the army. The semi-cylindrical 3-part mess-tin, frequently referred to as a canteen, was 6 inches wide, 4 inches deep, and about 7 inches high. The three nesting parts consisted of a top part with handle for drinking, a shallow centre portion which served as a plate, and a deeper 4-inch section with handle, which was used as a meat container and a billy can for boiling."

The nested tins were carried in a black canvas or oilskin cover until a khaki canvas cover was introduced in 1903, when the mess-tins were retained with the British 1903 Bandolier Equipment."

Charles Heath

[JerseySkilletLicker]

Thin Red Line

Unfortunately, the Thin Red Line's main guy passed away not too long ago and they only sell a fraction of what they used to. I did order some I&C mess tins from them as I felt from their site that they would be at least closer to originals than other reproductions I have seen, alas they were pure stainless steel and not even close to originals.
I have supplied covers through my business to a few fellows, they were of painted canvas and had all the buckles and straps etc.