How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Yes, so we digressed. The coolest thing I see going on here is what we are learning about history and each other from even bothering to have this kind of discussion. I think it was a great question that was originally raised -we will not all always agree on things for sure, but this kind of talk is what keeps the hobby honest - and alive I may add.
Everyone has a totally different experience, but we all have some common themes as re enactors..I think it is just fun to hang around guys who love the civil war history that care enough to ask good questions about how to be better impressions. And to me, re enacting is always worth doing, - in spite of farbs, bogus carnival like events, fau naval commanders who look more like a cartoon version of black beard the pirate than real sailors, bad confederate general impressions and all. But I will have to have some boundaries - a line in the sand, if you will, for some things, and salutes are one of them! And for what it's worth, I dont think you or I wasted time spent in the desert. We may not see the impact politically any time soon, but I still believe it was important. And ditto on the keeing in shape part. That will probably take another thread.

Phil Hatfield

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

No Phil,
-We did not regress we were temporary disoriented:wink_smil
-I have to admit, I am an officer due to my skill and not my leadership style, your right about some of the clowns in this hobby, but you know there are "bad golfers" also.

- Wasted time in the desert...well no matter what happens or who is elected, or how soon we either pull out or not, it was not wasted for you and I becasue we took care of Soldiers and Marines.

Man, aint this the greatest hobby going?

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Dale, you hit the nail on the head - get em home alive, we did. I do have to say the 'golfer' thing has had me chuckling all evening..never thought about that one. But can you imagine the lies that those huge farb generals tell their buddies on monday mornings about what they did all weekend/ Like being saluted LMAO - just like some golfers tell their wifeys on Sunday night...Hmm maybe there really is a parallel dimension for golf and re enacting - NO really, I am only kidding dont bombard me with nasty grams golfers... Thanks gang, for the interesting discussion, I will try not to digress..I am interested to see where this goes.
Phil Hatfield aka Grinch

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

...I am interested to see where this goes.--Phil Hatfield aka Grinch

I never will forget at Tunnel Hill, Ga, which btw really a nice place, pretty country, not too hot or cold, well anyway, myself and some of my Bayou Boys go walking up to find out where we were to camp.... This guy walks up to us and asked us did we know where we were going...I said no, and he pointed the way to where we were to camp. As we were walking off, he told us next time to salute, I was shocked. So he was the one we identified to screw with all weekend. (I think his name was Duffer...just kidding)

The other-thing. Golf and Reenacting are alike in so many ways. For example, you don't spend all that time going to the range, and practicing your putting just to play golf with those who never practice. And I can't stand to ride a cart, so I use to walk, and I could not stand for people to give out after the first nine holes.

[billwatson]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

"For example, you don't spend all that time going to the range, and practicing your putting just to play golf with those who never practice."

Let me rephrase what is probably obvious to most: A great many of us don't want to salute someone whose sole interest in authenticity is receiving salutes from "lesser ranks." If that's all the game you're bringing, a lot of folks don't want to play.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Well, heck, I don't know....

Back in the day, it was always good fun to find some butterbar with an armful of packages or just something or another foolishly carried in his right hand, and make a point to salute him just to see if he'd drop everything, bonk himself in the head with whatever he was carrying, or just render a good "carry on." If he was a good fellow, maybe even assist him with his burden.

This reminds me of a fun reenacting story at an event within sight of The Bunker. A young fellow was nailed to be adjutant (a thankless job if there ever was one), and this was probably one of his first times totin' the butterknife, if not the first time. Being at the end of a water detail, hauling a bunch of canteens, and looking forward to using someone else's watering rig, I ambled along with with the rest of the water buffalo herd behind our fearless corporal. I'm thinking that said chevron bearer was Grumpy Dave, but I may be mistaken. Being the tail end Charlie (hey, that fits) I was singled out for some "are you too good to salute BS." That was fine with me, as I knew precisely what to do. Upon our return with full canteens we six or so lackluster beasts of burden of the humble practical joke variety managed to string ourselves out to the point where we made darn sure we rendered and he returned six separate flaps of the arm.

I believe our point was well made when said lieutenant exclaimed to the last man tagging along "You got me. You got me. I understand now." Yes, with a grin provided by all parties involved.

At this juncture, I have to admit absolutely no knowledge of why said officer's canteen always seemed empty, or how it was refilled with a molasses concoction, or how the rocks were placed in his knapsack, or anything at all about the sleeves on his uniform jacket being sewn together as if by magic from time to time, and I really don't know how the soothing anti-chafe powder was mysteriously replaced with itching powder. Sir, did you ever find your hat?

Work arounds. The world is full of them.

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

The other-thing. Golf and Reenacting are alike in so many ways - Dale

So true Dale- Although ;) I was referring to the lies guys tell their wives to hide the more amourous sins of the Golf weekends...but I suppose it could be equally as dangerous to lie about the brand spanking new 1842 smooth bore you bought over the weekend. At least all you have to do is de farb it and burn a little powder through the bore to learn its ways, not spend hours on the danged driving range and still end up looking like an idiot during the next round you play...

Ref - Physical fitness in the modern military and reenactors
I just know I am going to regret saying this next one. But to be honest, I truly despise it when I go out to an event hoping to get to double quick a little, or distance marching etc. to enhance the experience, (yes I really do believe it does that) only to find the only running that the majority of guys in the battalion do is to the happy hour or porta jons later.

Many are wheezing after 200 yards of 4/4 time marching! Yes, I know that even in the 1860's some poor lads turned out in horrible physical shape, lessee, I believe a common term was "dandies" or other less pleasant moniker. However, the photos and source data generally indicate union or confeds were not out of shape by the middle-late 1861 time frame if they were in the field. Hence, I opine we should also try to keep some facsimile of troops living in the field, i.e. keep our physical presence appear as a solider - in shape. That is only my opinion, and I know I will probably catch heck for this one)

Now before you guys slay me with death mail, I must qualify my comments - 1) I know it does not apply to you all, and 2) some guys are still learning and are making honest efforts to get into good shape to look the part of a solider, and 3) I know some fellers are running at heart, but their bodies have for whatever medical reason, said to forget it and go hack some other hobby because it isnt going to let you run 6 miles today. Nuff said.

But I think you get the point = A major element of being in the regular military is getting into good physical shape. To stay on topic of this thread, I think that makes me a better as a reenactor - I like to think it is a discipline to stay in decent shape.
On the other hand, we still need to talk about the thousands of active duty guys, officers and enlisted, who are really obese!! HOW on God's little green earth did the DoD ever allow that to happen?! Oppps. I just created need for another thread...I just know Paul is gonna ding me for this soon...
Phil Hatfield

[DannyJoe]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

I have served on active duty and in the reserves as an enlisted man and as an officer. I do not feel that having served in the military necessarily improves a reenactor's impression of a Civil War soldier. The reenactor that I hold in the highest regard was a former Army NCO and Vietnam veteran. The worst was a veteran who had a bad attitude and never ventured far from his 20th Century military mannerisms........a true farb and almost clueless about the Civil War soldier. Between these two extremes, I have had the pleasure to meet many outstanding reenactors who have served this great country of ours in the military and those who are non-veterans. IMHO the best reenactors in this hobby are represented by both veterans and non-veterans. Certainly, having served in the military should give a veteran an advantage, and the learning curve might be a little steeper initially for the non-veteran when it comes to learning how to soldier. However, the non-veteran can level the playing field through commitment, research, gaining meaningful experience in the hobby, and investment. A good mentor would be a big benefit also. The veteran can be left lagging behind as a reenactor if he does not actively improve his Civil War soldiering skills and acquire the knowledge and commitment that is necessary to develop an authentic impression of a Civil War soldier. Regardless, if you are a veteran or non-veteran.....remember knowledge is power. It is the fuel that drives the best reenactors. Besides knowledge, a reasonable level of physical fitness is a key to making a good impression of a Civil War soldier. A modern Joe should have a greater appreciation for physical fitness and soldiering, but a non-veteran should find staying in shape important to soldiering also.
I concur with MSGT Hicks. I do not salute reenactor officers nor do I expect to be saluted if I am portraying a Civil War officer. My salutes are reserved for the American flag.
Regards,

[BrianHicks]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

I don't think this thread is so much about how real world military experience makes one a 'better reenactor' so much as it a thread in which we are trying to draw out observations and comments on how our military experiences have given us tools, tricks of the trade and experiences which we can bring to our impressions which help us improve how we reenact. Like the gentlemen who posted above this one. I don't necessarily buy into the idea that by the virtue of being a real world veteran, you automatically are a better reenactor.

And by the way...I do Salute Officers at events (well... those Officers who are in my immediate chain of command, or whom I know to be capable of doing a good job at presenting a solid Officers impression). I've only been to one mainstream type event in the past two years. There were a number of Officers whom I did not know, and by appearance, some seemed to be... challenged, authenticity wise. These are the ones whom I refrain from recognizing with a salute.

[annmaddox]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

In reference to saluting, what do ya'll think of this? I thought you guys would enjoy a laugh that happened to some guys in my unit.
At a small-ish event we had Lincoln, Grant, Lee, Jackson attending, overlooking the battle all in a row. The real event was a small skirmish here in SC, after Jackson had been dead over 1 year. At the conclusion of the "battle" a lone native American ran out & faux "scalped" a few Union troops.
Later that day, resting under the pavillion, our crew was resting in the only large shady spot available. A private was sipping water from his canteen when someone approached him, and told him Gen Lee would like his seat. Could he please remove himself, as the "General" didn't want to sit on provided haybales b/c it might soil his uniform, which was undoubtedly a rental. Said Pvt did not remove himself, nor salute, but inquired to what unit Gen traveled with. "None. We just drove down to provide a General Lee for your event"
1. Who asked for one?
2. Not "our" event
3. General Lee was NOT EVEN HERE!!
Horrible event & we have never been back. (This was in 2003)

Would you fellows have done the same? It's a curious spot b/c spectators swarming around the scene, you shouldn't be overly rebellious, but this was ridiculous IMHO. I've never read anything where Lee would have asked his men to do something like this anyway. First person was not a priority. Although he did have a white beard.

Do other locations have this problem with General who weren't even alive etc. showing up or is this a Southern thing? Don't get me wrong. I was raised to love Gen Lee & Jackson. But it's getting ridiculous....even Lincoln in SC? Pleeeease.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

How about Lee at Resaca, Ga. or Grant at Pilot Knob, MO which took place in Sept. of 1864 or Lincoln hanging out in East Prairie, MO which never ever happened!?

I think it's good to call these clowns out. They're an embarrasment to the hobby in my opinion, contribute nothing of worth and only confuse an uneducated public just to satisfy their delusions of grandeur. Legends in their own minds they are.

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

- Brian, I agree with you - being a veteran is not neccesarily a predictor of impression quality or officer/NCO leadership skills etc. I refer back to my earlier comments made on page 4 of this thread to avoid redundancy - but I wasnt aware we had decided at some point that being 'better at your impression' as the thread Title suggests in the title, was conceptually different from being 'better as a reenactor', although perhaps I am nitpicking the semantics a bit - Did I miss something?

Phil Hatfield

[BrianHicks]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

- Brian, I agree with you - being a veteran is not neccesarily a predictor of impression quality or officer/NCO leadership skills etc. I refer back to my earlier comments made on page 4 of this thread to avoid redundancy - but I wasnt aware we had decided at some point that being 'better at your impression' as the thread Title suggests in the title, was conceptually different from being 'better as a reenactor', although perhaps I am nitpicking the semantics a bit - Did I miss something?

Phil Hatfield

No... I don't think so, but it looked as though their were a few responses which were tending to infer that having been a veteran makes you a better reenactor.

[DougCooper]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

In reference to saluting, what do ya'll think of this? I thought you guys would enjoy a laugh that happened to some guys in my unit.
At a small-ish event we had Lincoln, Grant, Lee, Jackson attending, overlooking the battle all in a row. The real event was a small skirmish here in SC, after Jackson had been dead over 1 year. At the conclusion of the "battle" a lone native American ran out & faux "scalped" a few Union troops.
Later that day, resting under the pavillion, our crew was resting in the only large shady spot available. A private was sipping water from his canteen when someone approached him, and told him Gen Lee would like his seat. Could he please remove himself, as the "General" didn't want to sit on provided haybales b/c it might soil his uniform, which was undoubtedly a rental. Said Pvt did not remove himself, nor salute, but inquired to what unit Gen traveled with. "None. We just drove down to provide a General Lee for your event"
1. Who asked for one?
2. Not "our" event
3. General Lee was NOT EVEN HERE!!
Horrible event & we have never been back. (This was in 2003)

Would you fellows have done the same? It's a curious spot b/c spectators swarming around the scene, you shouldn't be overly rebellious, but this was ridiculous IMHO. I've never read anything where Lee would have asked his men to do something like this anyway. First person was not a priority. Although he did have a white beard.

Do other locations have this problem with General who weren't even alive etc. showing up or is this a Southern thing? Don't get me wrong. I was raised to love Gen Lee & Jackson. But it's getting ridiculous....even Lincoln in SC? Pleeeease.

You did exactly right!

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

This was my intention. I am not one to judge anyone better than any others and this thread wasn't intended for that... just experiences to bring to our impressions

[QUOTE=BrianHicks;64673]I don't think this thread is so much about how real world military experience makes one a 'better reenactor' so much as it a thread in which we are trying to draw out observations and comments on how our military experiences have given us tools, tricks of the trade and experiences which we can bring to our impressions which help us improve how we reenact. Like the gentlemen who posted above this one. I don't necessarily buy into the idea that by the virtue of being a real world veteran, you automatically are a better reenactor.

QUOTE]