How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

[DougCooper]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

I think one thing Brian may be hinting on here is that real military service tends to make you not sweat the small stuff in the hobby, and concentrate on the big stuff - making one a better reenactor. Having trained all our lives in the real military we understand the importance of routine and training, so may tend to fit in as a reenactor soldier a bit better.

Also, and this is perhaps most important now that I think about it, we get the sense of "unit." To me the greatest accomplishment any of us can make is being part of an efficient, well drilled and functioning unit. That to me is way more important than the individual in the hobby. Probably one reason I decry the demise of the functioning battalion except for a few notable exceptions.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Weapons maintenance was brought up earlier, but no one brought up weapons safety. One way that service members help improve reenacting is the ingrained training in weapons safety recieved from service with Uncle Sam. It becomes 2nd nature when deployed, carrying a loaded weapon. You go to the range at least once a year even if your a REMF! You have first hand knowledge of what a weapon can do so you have a healthy respect for the damage your musket could do. Even though muskets aren't loadedwith live cartridges, powder burns can still do a person greivous harm. I've seen several incidents of careless handling of loaded muskets inflicting wounds to its owner. Complacency is a bad thing! True certain other civilians may get firearms safety training either through hunting safety courses, CDW permits or being a law officer.

Not only is weapons safety a factor but Risk management is a tool also used by DoD. I know your all thinking "Ah-h safety is for pussies!" But nothing will ruin a good event faster than having a pard injured and taken away in an modern ambulance. Not part of a staged production with a period ambulance either; I mean the real world, no kidding "MEDIC!" This ruin the whole weekend!

Lastly will somebody explain the hazard of 2 band rifles, MS rifles or Zouave rifles to me. I just don't see what the difference of 6 less inches of barrel makes. Either in the front or rear rank. I just don't see the problem. I know the shorter rifles in the infantry are way under represented in the hobby. Mostly forbidden to be used at most reenactments. WHY!

Written from the dust, wind and heat of Afghanistan w/the 82d Abn.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Lastly will somebody explain the hazard of 2 band rifles, MS rifles or Zouave rifles to me. I just don't see what the difference of 6 less inches of barrel makes. Either in the front or rear rank. I just don't see the problem. I know the shorter rifles in the infantry are way under represented in the hobby. Mostly forbidden to be used at most reenactments. WHY!

Written from the dust, wind and heat of Afghanistan w/the 82d Abn.

In experienced hands, there isn't much danger, but in the hands of those who don't keep the second rank closed up on the first, and/or fail to use proper feet and body placement, and bringing the weapon over the shoulder of the man in the front rank properly when coming up to fire.

Even in loading a 2-bander, due to it being shorter, there is a greater risk of failing to hold the muzzle away from from beneath their chin, but this gets more dangerous for the front rank fella, when the second rank guy, loading a 2 bander, cants the weapon toward the fella in front of him.

These are the concerns I have become aware of, but never experienced personally, as I don't recall ever beig in the ranks with anyone handling a 2-Banded rifle.

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Oops, posted twice - please delete
Phil Hatfield

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Brian, et al -

Nah, I thought I was pretty clear, but when I said the Vet factor made me 'better', I was implying that discipline learned in the military helps me to stay motivated to improve the physical presence projected when portraying a civil war 'sojer' - i.e. always trying to get in better shape - soliders in the field were obviously in some physical shape, or they would not have made 18 - 30 mile marches, and endured those austere conditions thousands denote in their diaries etc.

In other words, the Vet factor helps motivate me to go to the gym instead of Pizza Hut if you get the point. So yes, I think the guy who takes time to keep himself in some kind of physical condition is better for it in many ways -one being healthwise, and they will probably get a better experience out of the hobby - that was the point. Being a Vet is not a prerequisite for that, but I know I wouldnt do it had I not learned the discipline in the military. If that makes me an elitist, I'm good with it.

Phil Hatfield

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

In experienced hands, there isn't much danger, but in the hands of those who don't keep the second rank closed up on the first, and/or fail to use proper feet and body placement, and bringing the weapon over the shoulder of the man in the front rank properly when coming up to fire.

Even in loading a 2-bander, due to it being shorter, there is a greater risk of failing to hold the muzzle away from from beneath their chin, but this gets more dangerous for the front rank fella, when the second rank guy, loading a 2 bander, cants the weapon toward the fella in front of him.

These are the concerns I have become aware of, but never experienced personally, as I don't recall ever beig in the ranks with anyone handling a 2-Banded rifle.

Brian, I believe your right about "in experienced hands, there isn't much danger".
Did you mean that leaning the barrel towards the front rank soldiers endangers him as much as keeping the barrel under the loaders chin.
My point is the danger is the same reguardless of where its pointed. I would would think the danger is greater for the loader since its pointed toward his face where the possibility of loosing an eye or disfigurement is the greatest.
As a pre-teen I was playing with gun powder that I had scaped off the table outside. I had piled it on the ground and was lighting matches and dropping it the piles. What a cool poof and smoke. But once the match had burnt out before lighting the pile off, or so I thought it went out. Just as I went to remove the match, the pile lit off. I got some nice 1st and 2nd degree burns on my fingers and hands. Diploma recieved from the school of hard knocks that day!
Sounds like this is something that training and discipline would solve. I think this may deserve its own thread.

[Chad Teasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Comrades,

I've followed this thread with interest, as it was a topic that I often reflected upon back when I was active in the hobby. As my last event was exactly three years ago last month (Uncle Sam has had other plans for me since then), I almost hesitate to provide input to the discussion, given that I have no recent experiences upon which to base my opinion. However, as this matter was something I frequently thought about when I was able to spend my weekends in jean cloth, and I've continued to reflect on it a good deal since, I hope it won't trouble anyone if I offer a few thoughts.

Several have commented that as veterans of the real-world military, we have been provided with training in and an appreciation for such traits as physical fitness, military bearing and courtesy, drill and ceremonies, and (my personal all-time biggest pet peeve at many reenactments) weapons safety and maintenance practices. All this is certainly true. It's also been pointed out that many of us, probably most, as a result of our military backgrounds have received formal training in leadership, and have had the opportunity to practically apply that training in a real environment, often under quite challenging circumstances. Doug made the accurate observation that our backgrounds often help us "not sweat the small stuff". I concur with all of this, and feel that these things assist us in our desire to honor The Old Ones by portraying them as accurately as possible.

However, one thing that hasn't yet been mentioned is a quality that I think we as veterans usually possess, due to our experiences in the day to day life of the Armed Forces (particularly in a wartime environment), and which I feel is all too frequently sorely lacking in our hobby.

That is the ability to remember the difference between the real military, and a real war, and the one that we simulate on our free weekends.

The first is a matter of life and death, and even national survival. The other is a leisure past-time. There is a huge difference, and I believe that is too often forgotten.

Even at its most authentic (i.e. the way it is practiced by many members of this forum), and no matter how hard we may try to obtain realism in our impressions, Civil War living history is bound to fall short in its representation of life in a real military organization. (From what I've read, though, BGR apparently came pretty danged close to being on the mark. :) ) Sure, we can try our best, but at the end of the day, it's still just a hobby, something we do in our free time.

We have many different motivations for participating in this strange past-time of ours, but, in the end, it's something we do for fun - or, it's supposed to be, anyway.

It's just reenacting.
It's not the real deal.

The above statement may elicit a "duh" response, but I believe it's a fact that actually gets forgotten a lot. At least, my first-hand observations up to three years ago led me to that conclusion, and, given what I observe on the A/C, I think it is still a valid assessment.

A disagreement concerning a leisure past-time doesn't seem to me to be worth insulting anyone over, questioning somebody's integrity over, or calling anyone nasty names over. Yet, in our hobby, that happens all the time.

I respectfully submit that any sweat-drenched Joe nervously carrying an M-4 down some treacherous back-alley in Sadr City or Karmah, or gasping for breath while struggling on patrol up the side of a desolate Afghan mountain, intuitively knows far more about the challenges and horrors faced by the Old Ones than do most members of our beloved past-time...No matter how perfectly hand-stitched the button-holes may be on our expensive museum-quality jackets.

I mean no offense to anyone. I'm not questioning anybody's commitment to history. Heck, for just about everyone who frequents this forum, that commitment couldn't even begin to be described by the word "passionate".

Maybe it is that very passion which sometimes causes us to forget that our dear hobby is just that.

A hobby.
It is not the real thing.

Yes, I do believe that having served in the real military is a benefit when it comes to reenacting. I think it helps one maintain a sense of perspective as to what is really important.

And that definitely makes us better living historians.

I hope I haven't offended anybody. If that is the case, I do offer my apologies. If that isn't sufficient, feel free to flame-spray away. :)

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Brother Chad,

Very well put. Be careful and come home.

[Infantry Grunt]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Many here have made excellent comments and opinions from appearences to weapons maintenance. Since the question was raised "Does being Joe make you better...", I have a follow on question as a result.

Here is a couple thoughts before I ask the question. I started reenacting a year before leaving for basic training back in 1998. Since 2003, I have less of a desire to go out and protray a CW soldier at an authentic event. I'd rather hang out at a farby event and relax with old friends from my original unit. Their version of progressive reenacting is sleeping around the camp fire with the coolers in a tent nearby. I know that it isn't right, but I just don't have the desire to go out in the middle of the night and pull picket duty or getting up at o'dark thirty for whatever duty we have to pull.
I still haven't changed my mentallity for making sure I have accurate gear and cloth. Just changed in what I want to do at events.

Have any others have felt that they have a less of desire to do the hardcore/progressive style of reenacting since mobilization or even since joining the military?

For me to answer the original question that was asked of this thread, at first absolutely it helped, but not so much anymore.

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

It took me 3 years to even to even go to an event since coming back from deployment.

I still prefer to be with authentics. I believe the accurate portrayal of our fore fathers in arms is the best way to do their memory justice.

But being with friends is key, most of my friends are authentics so I totally understand where you are coming from.

Many here have made excellent comments and opinions from appearences to weapons maintenance. Since the question was raised "Does being Joe make you better...", I have a follow on question as a result.

Here is a couple thoughts before I ask the question. I started reenacting a year before leaving for basic training back in 1998. Since 2003, I have less of a desire to go out and protray a CW soldier at an authentic event. I'd rather hang out at a farby event and relax with old friends from my original unit. Their version of progressive reenacting is sleeping around the camp fire with the coolers in a tent nearby. I know that it isn't right, but I just don't have the desire to go out in the middle of the night and pull picket duty or getting up at o'dark thirty for whatever duty we have to pull.
I still haven't changed my mentallity for making sure I have accurate gear and cloth. Just changed in what I want to do at events.

Have any others have felt that they have a less of desire to do the hardcore/progressive style of reenacting since mobilization or even since joining the military?

For me to answer the original question that was asked of this thread, at first absolutely it helped, but not so much anymore.

[Chad Teasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Wow...And I honestly thought it was just me.

To answer the above question, when I return home, my priority is being with my family. That includes when I'm doing living history.

I will be taking the hobby back up when I get home, and I'm excited about it. Actually, I think I'm more enthused about the prospect of reenacting again than at any time since I was a fresh fish. It's been quite a while. However, since the start of my vacation in the desert, I've realized that enjoying time with my family has become a much bigger priority for me than going by myself to top-flight events with comrades.

My oldest two girls will be leaving the nest by this time next year. One is bound for the Navy, and the other for college. I've seen little of them for the last few years (arduous sea duty followed by my current tour in Iraq), and I honestly desire to treasure every single moment with them that I can before they go out into the world. I also have three other kids whom I want to spend time with, not to mention their fantastic Mom.

I plan to attend some premier events, but only those my teenage son can go to with me. He'll be 16 in the spring, and has been sleeping on the ground at reenactments since he was 7. Those events, though, that don't allow 16 year old soldiers, I'll probably just skip. I have no desire to go by myself. We likely won't be coming to much of anything in the fall, either, as Jared plays varsity high school football, and I hope not to miss any games. :)

In fact, instead of dropping $300 on the latest trendy hand-sewn jacket for whatever impression, I'd prefer to spend it on a piece of jewelry as an unexpected gift for the magnificent woman who has uncomplainingly raised five kids essentially by herself for most of the last 18 years, while her husband was at sea or in the desert...Or, during the rare shore tour, off playing Confederate soldier on the weekends while she stayed at home with the children.

I suppose that I've concluded that after 22 years of doing the military experience for real, I don't feel inclined to have to prove much of anything to anybody when it comes to conforming to others' definitions of what is authentic or what isn't. The only ones who I'm worried about impressing are my wife and kids.

So, if you happen to be in southeastern Georgia or northern Florida next reenacting season, please look me up. I'll be the guy at the mainstream event striving to give as solid a material impression as possible, working hard at drill, volunteering for guard mount, and mentoring the young soldier standing next to him in ranks. My two sons and I will be pretty easy to find, because at night we'll be outside sleeping on the ground, rain or shine. At supper-time, though, I'll likely be seated on a camp stool in front of my Beloved's tent, eating some of her wonderful period cooking, and surrounded by three extraordinarily beautiful teenage refugees.

And if from that description you still can't identify me...Well, then just look for the ratty looking Rebel soldier with the most joyous smile on his face that you ever saw. :)

[Chad Teasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Moderator Jim,

In re-reading my above post, it occurs to me that it's possible some may feel I've broached the "No Farbism" rule.

I don't think I did; in fact I sincerely hope not.

However, if in your considered opinion my post is on the fence, feel free to delete it, with my appreciation for the tough job you do, and with thanks for keeping us honest.

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Kudos Chad, and great posts.

I really don't have a family, so my posts are unique to my situation. But I support you and yours. How we cope when returning home is a very personal en devour.

I really enjoyed your comments on Playing war vs Being in war, right on. It is very interesting with current rotations at 12-15 months, we are really tested to our limits, to think of how the boys of 61 didn't get their first veterans furloughs until late 63/ 64. Well it makes me a lot more empathetic to desertion etc....

[pbhatfield]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

" It's just reenacting.
It's not the real deal."

I say well put Chad, of course this is only a hobby and not real - dont take ourselves to seriously, and have fun. Good points. Yet on the other hand, I dont know that this is as simple as it sounds either. I have an observation couched in a question of two for everyone - not for the sake of nitpicking anyones semantics, I am just interested to see if some are catching this - in many posts I notice some allude to what amounts to honoring ancestors by reenacting - which to me seems to want to attribute an almost mystical or 'higher' element to reenacting - how does that reconcile with this being 'just' a hobby that we shouldnt take too seriously?

In other words are you saying you reenact only because its fun and/or to teach others about a terrible period of our history, hoping others will beging to appreciate its value, and become more like us, and try to preserve it, etc. or is it for some 'higher' purpose, like gratifying ancestors who fought in the war? I say this because I see a notion or theme in the postings of the last couple days that reenacting should be just for fun, i.e dont take it too seriously while simultaneously I hear that somehow we also have a higher mission, like bringing honor to ancestors (or however one phrases or describes it). I wonder do they really connect? I am not saying it cannot be fun and have some sort of practical value in the educational sense. But thats not really what I mean.

I think it is the question of 'something more' I keep hearing in these threads that really bears discussion here, if anything, not whether we are the types who will tease the farbs, or insult others, or those who prefer to stick to our own little groups, or hang out with old pards at mainstream events - its your hobby, money and your time, I say do what you want with it! Here is where I think being a veteran may be a factor - everyone here has said that deployment had a profound impact upon them -the original question was along the lines of does it make you better as a reenactor - my question now is: if its only for fun, why care?

Phil Hatfield

[Chad Teasley]

Re: Does being a modern Joe make you better at your impression?

Comrades,

I believe I may owe an apology, because Phil's comments and question have led me to conclude that I perhaps conveyed an impression which I did not intend. If I imparted the idea that I think we shouldn't take Civil War living history seriously, I do beg your pardon, because such was not my desire.

Actually, I greatly respect the fact that so many of those who contribute to this forum DO view reenacting quite seriously. In fact, I was trying to convey that respect in this excerpt from my original post:

I'm not questioning anybody's commitment to history. Heck, for just about everyone who frequents this forum, that commitment couldn't even begin to be described by the word "passionate".

I flatter myself that I am among that group who take a highly serious view of living history, indeed a passionate view, as does, in fact, everyone who has contributed thus far to this discussion. For just about all of us, Civil War reenacting is, as Phil rightly indicated, a higher calling.

Be that as it may, however, it is still also a hobby. I believe it is safe to surmise that for all of us, that hobby is extremely important, to a greater or lesser degree. However, except for the handful whose day job is as a historical interpretive ranger or some similar occupation, reenacting is still something we mostly do in our free time. And, any way you boil it down, it is still a simulated military environment, not the real thing.

To me, calling reenacting a "hobby" does not lessen its importance. A job is something one does to earn a living. Whether one loves his job or hates it, unless one is fortunate enough to receive a large financial inheritance, having an occupation of some sort is generally necessary. Somehow or another, you've got to put bread on the table. It's gotta be done. A hobby, on the other hand, is optional. There is no requirement stating that any of us HAVE to partake in this strange past-time of ours (and I think most folks in modern society do consider what we do to be a bit strange :) ). A hobby is something we do because we LOVE it...It's a passion. The cause of the passion varies within each of us. Perhaps, as Phil stated, the root of that passion is a desire to pay homage to one's ancestors. Perhaps it is a pure love of history (I know several folks whose grandparents imigrated to U.S. shores in the 20th century, and who have no ancestry that were involved in the War Between the States...And yet they are completely dedicated living historians. They do it because they have a passion for history.) Perhaps it is a deep interest in things military, and a desire to comprehend the experience of soldiers at war. There are living historians who have all these motivations as a root cause of their passion, and there are probably a thousand other reasons, besides.

Whatever the root causes of our motivations, in the end, most of us do this because we love it. In fact, we love it a whole lot, so we take it seriously. Because of this, we invest huge amounts of research, time, money, and effort into developing and refining our impressions, trying hard to perfect them to the best of our abilities. I personally believe this to be quite commendable, and for those of us whose motivations include honoring our ancestors, I suspect they are pleased at our efforts.

However, all of that having been said, I do NOT believe that the depth of our passion for this hobby is justification to treat others judgmentally, with lack of respect, to call them names, to mock them, or make cruel jokes at their expense. All these things happen much too often within our particular sub-culture, and that has always troubled me about reenacting. Being passionate, we have strong convictions about our hobby. So do others. That is their right, as it is also ours. What is the purpose in insulting someone or impugning their integrity, simply because they happen to disagree with us concerning some aspect of our common passion? Why not cheerfully agree to disagree, and still find comradeship and friendship in the fact that both parties share a pasttime to which we are devoted? Is the fact that we might have differences of opinion concerning how best to practice that pasttime grounds for enmity? I think any reasonable person would say "no". However, it happens over and over again within our community. That unfortunate fact truly bewilders me, and has since I started in the hobby.

When I stated that living history should be "fun", I didn't mean to imply that it should be approached carelessly, with slipshod abandon, and with an "anything goes" attitude. Instead, I intended to convey that we should find enjoyment in our participation. I personally find a great deal of enjoyment in being as accurate in my military impression as I can, and participating to the maximum extent and in the most realistic manner possible in those activities common to the soldiers of 1861-1865. That to me is "fun". Despite how serious I am about it, and regardless of how much commitment and dedication I may put into it, though, it still is not real life.

My family is my real life. My kids growing up are my real life. The war our nation is engaged in, and in which many members of this forum have fought, is my real life.

Reenacting, despite a passion for and deep love of it, is not real life. It is my hobby.

My real life is a higher priority to me than my hobby.

I believe my ancestors are accepting of that.

Having said all this, let me answer Phil's question, with the understanding that this is Chad's perspective only, and others' mileage will definitely vary:
I care...Largely BECAUSE I find honoring my ancestors to be so enjoyable. Honoring The Old Ones through living history gives me a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction that almost nothing else can. It does cause me to feel a connection with them, and, yes, at times I've felt that connection to be so strong as to almost be mystical. One of the great moments of my life was in April, 2004, when as a member of Co. B, 15th Texas Infantry, I marched onto the Hallowed Ground of Mansfield battlefield, where my ancestor, Private James H. Teasley of Co. H, 28th Louisiana Infantry, died fighting in 1864. That was a moment, and an experience, that I will cherish to the end of my days. I felt that James was looking down on us that day, and I believe he was smiling.

I hope all of the above makes at least some small degree of sense. :o

I apologize for this post being so lengthy. I promise you good Comrades that I have not attempted to highjack this thread, although the tediousness of my posts may reflect otherwise. :)