How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

Well I added up the CW cost of my kit using the actual prices the army charged as listed in CRRC2.

And what I would have been issued or acquired on my own came to about 5 months of a private's salary. And that didn't include personal incidentals. (or the fact that some of the real issue items were junk)

Now the government isn't providing any of my gear so it isn't exactly a wash but it is obvious that it wasn't cheap to get a soldier into the field and then keep him there.

The problem we modern reenactors face is that nobody but us foots the bill, you do need an absolute minimum kit to take the field and most of us have a limited budget.

The question becomes not do you compromise (unless you're willing to spend an extended time to get into the field) but what items is it smartest to compromise on?

And yes I know it could cost more in the 'long run' (trading out lesser itmes for better) but what you are dealing with is not necessarily absolute dollars but what is referred to in business as 'cash flow'. When are the dollars available to be spent?

And financing them on a credit card (to get it ALL NOW) might actually cost more due to interest charges in the long run.

There is the plus side of ecomonics though that will work in the favor of future generations of reenectors. As the demand for high quality items continues to increase, manufacturing 'scale' will start to kick in and also competition for the dollars spent. Both forces will tend to drive prices down (in relative terms).

Sort of a reenactor's 'Moore's Law'.

[utahreenactor]

Re: Authentic junk clothing and gear

Gents,

Dan is very correct here, there is a big difference between inexperienced sewing and hasty sewing by experienced sewers. As far as originals some of the different garments I have seen have ranged from having terrible construction all around, to having beautiful construction all around, or have had very nice construction and crappy button holes and the exact opposite as well. Here is a link to a picture of a button hole on some SA trousers from Joe Hofmann's Epson photo gallery:

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=4015217&a=30392478&p=61842230

As you can see at least one of those button holes has only 9 stitches in the entire thing!

Chase Pinkham

[Strawfoot]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

It doesn't cost a PENNY to learn how to drill correctly. And that is the most authentic way to improve an impression. I personally could give a rat's fart about the gear, and am sick of hearing about it.

The only reason I wear it is to get into the best events. Well, outside of my Bender hat, ************ sack coat and Serio brogans, which are just a pleasure to wear. How's that for attitude?


Mike Phineas
Arlington, TX

[utahreenactor]

Re: Authentic junk clothing and gear

As I was looking for examples of uniform pictures to post I came across this one in my archive. The photos are of a machine made artillery jacket and are credited to Sharpsburg relics. The coat has since been sold and the pictures are no longer on their site.

Here are some of the things I found very unique about this coat:

1: It is the crappiest job of machine stitching I have ever seen. No two lines of stitching are straight or parallel. Notice on one of the cuff detail pictures the size of the machine stitches are not even the same, they look like someone was hand stitching who had no idea of what they were doing.

2. Crappiest overall construction I have ever seen. Notice the right side of the jacket has to be gathered into the SLEEVE! Also the button holes rather pucker the front of the jacket and do not appear to have been well made. Even though the jacket looks like total crap overall, I think the worst detail overall has to be the sleeve lining that has one of its seam allowances exposed. The maker apparently forgot to sew the thing on the same side when making the jacket!

Chase Pinkham

PS. The jacket pictures are rather oddly set up, so if they do not work well downloading off the forum I will try to alter them tomorrow, or you can email me and I will shoot you the file!
file!

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Authentic junk clothing and gear

Nic, if you don't know John Wedeward - you might want to give him a call. This is his perspective as well and pretty much the M.O. behind the way he produces his blouses.

You're right though - this isn't an excuse for buying farbonzo gear. Authenticity in patterns, construction techniques and materials still count... even if the garment appears hastily constructed, for the reasons you've mentioned.

Same was with the blouses Jolly made.

[rbruno]

Re: Authentic junk clothing and gear

Nic,
This is a great point. The more I look at originals, the more I see a variation on the skills of the person who assembled the garment. I also looked at a shirt that was machine sewn and did not have a straight line of stitching anywhere. If I made a shirt like that and wore it to an event, people would probably think I was terrible at sewing shirts or wasted my money for a bad shirt. However, this would be a correct piece to wear. It would be great to see people wearing items like this to hopefully start a conversation and explanation of what originals people have examined to benefit all when it comes to information and knowledge on original garments.
Rob Bruno
1st Md Cav.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authentic junk clothing and gear

Hallo!

"The more I look at originals, the more I see a variation on the skills of the person who assembled the garment."

Eureka! ;) :)

As one should, both in the viewing of original items and in the understanidng that under both the depot system and the contract system, the "person who assembled" the garment brought their level of skill into the mix, and as long as the inspector considered it as meeting the specs closely enough to be "serviceable"- the garment was taken into service.

In brief and to over-generalize...

NUG, the depot system had fabric, thread, buttons, trims cut and packaged at the arsenal as "kits" which were then taken out in the community for "piece work" rate assembly.
This also was a way for women who husbands were away at the way to suport themselves and their families.
NUG, the system allocated the "easiest" work to the youngest and/or least experienced sewers. This was typically drawers, progressing to shirts, progressing to fatigue blouses- and saving the more complex or detailed garments like jackets and dress coats for the more experienced.

If a household or woman had a sewing machine, one could expect to see it employed on the longer seams versus entirely hand-sewn work.

"Factory" contractors did much of the same, however contract pieces often reflect the more "time is money" profit-side business practice where a sewing machine did a long seam faster than a hand-sewer.

So, yes, we should be seeing the signature hand of individual sewers/workers, and would see "more" were there to be more surviving originals (thinking on the near astronomical chance or probability that two garments made by the same individual had survived...) ;)

IMHO, the Wedeward and Jolly "concept" is to portray that where the sewer/worker has "lesser" skills than the next, but who still worked within the inspectors' concept of meeting specs by degree and what was considered "serviceable" at the need of the time. (Or for that matter what a contractor parceling out kits thought he could submit and still get approved in general or with a wink, nod, and a bribe... ;) )

Curt
Who had two Jolly blouses Mess

[Drygoods]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

Gentlemen, I say this because it looks at though more men are interested in this subject than the ladies, however, it's obvious to point out that polo ponies or ocean yachting could be a cheaper hobby. But, if you are in this hobby and constantly thinking about money, than you may be in this hobby for the wrong reasons. Money shouldn't be your first concern when starting out, instead, it should be if you have the ability to carry off the hobby from what is learned on the inside first. That's the most important part of LH, what you know, and how you put that knowledge into use.

Let's face it, everyone's first outfit is grim. Yeah, well, you learn as you go and you always look for ways to improve yourself. I suppose being a soldier it's much harder to outfit yourself than being a civilian, but if you haven't got much to start with, then lower your impression, note that I didn't say ideals. I'd much rather see some poor white trash impression, old worn trousers, or faded calico dresses, than some slick dude/dudette. And please, spare me those men with Fabio long hair, the Hank Williams Jr. look is so lousy, cut it yourself or ask your pard to help out there with your impression.

And last, if you're a young college student who doesn't have much or the like &c, there's no shame in asking for help, as most in this hobby are more than generous and willing to donate or give away old used items. Trust me, if you really like this hobby, you'll improve in time. It's not a race to look perfect in ten minutes or less. Yes, the lady should butt out, but nobody else said money isn't everything with this hobby in their post.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

Hallo!

I thas been some years since I last posted it, and see new lads and low post counts hinting that some may not have seen it...

It's not a race to look perfect in ten minutes or less.

"Perfection" is impossible. Striving toward the impossible is the journey not the unreachable destination... ;)

My first "outfit" consisted of:

1. Vinyl billed kepi
2. Modern underwear
3. Modern white cotton shirt made from a modifed Nehru pattern, clear plastic buttons
4. Powder blue Levi Jeans
5. Surplus police department, dark blue, winter coat weight wool made into a fatigue blouse by my wife from a pajama top pattern
6. Off white wool gym socks
7. Dyed black Hush Puppy "desert boots" (the crepe soles had to be redyed each time they were worn)
8. Navy Arms folded leather envelope called a cartridge box
9. Navy Arms cap box
10. Leather store belt blank with lead backed US plate (my 3rd best item)
11. White canvas haversack made by my wife
12. Original bullseye canteen covered in WWII gray blanket wool, white cotton strap sewn by my wife (2nd best item)
13. Original M1855 socket bayonet in an original post War Peabody rifle scabbard (best item)
14. Navy Arms mixed-model "M1864 Springfield" out of the box
15. Modern orange nylon backpacker tent, with yellow nylon pegs
16. Modern sleeping bag
17. Modern flourescent light

My current "outfit" consists of:

1. None of the above.

;) :)

Curt

(Not that I did not have "fun" with it, make memories, or good friends- just that "That was then, this is now.")

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Authentic junk clothing and gear

I still have my jolly blouse

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Judith

Gentlemen, I say this because it looks at though more men are interested in this subject than the ladies, however, it's obvious to point out that polo ponies or ocean yachting could be a cheaper hobby. But, if you are in this hobby and constantly thinking about money, than you may be in this hobby for the wrong reasons.

Quite honestly I have a LOT more money into my other two big "hobbies" (horse and model trains) but then again that money has been spent over a long long time. As long as 24 years.

And I really don't know how you can participate in the hobby without monitary concerns. Yes to learn about the people, period and how to portray them (such as the drill mentioned earlier) is relatively inexpensive.

But no matter how good your knowledge is, you can't portray them wearing 21st Century clothes. You do need at least a minimum amount of gear.

So maybe a more effective conversation might have been what, gear wise, is most important to making an effective portrayal? That might have helped be a guide as to how to prioritize limited resources.

I do however agree with the premise that 'how' to be a CW person is much more important gear. I'd much rather take the field with someone who knows how to be a soldier as opposed to one who looks real good and doesn't have a clue.

[1stMaine]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

Bob,

yeah, I understand the train part. I have been squirrling away funds for a new DCC/Sound loco for several months, but I'm not certain I'll ever have enough. Sigh. Even Proto 2000 cars are a might pricey as well. Oh well. I'll get to it eventually.

Respects,

[Charles Heath]

Re: Judith

So maybe a more effective conversation might have been what, gear wise, is most important to making an effective portrayal? That might have helped be a guide as to how to prioritize limited resources.

Bob,

The good news is that very subject has been beaten to death on this forum over the years. :)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

Hallo!

Yes, but we can grind the bones to make our bread.
;)

Curt
Jack Mess

And there seems to be a whiff of something in the air... along the lines of That was then, this is now" and "This is not your father's forum anymore." ;) :)
Then again, it could just be "History repeating itself" or being downwind of the sinks. :)

[GeraldDuval]

Re: Does price hurt your authenticity?

An excellent impression is pricey yes, but research goes a long way. That and the ability to sow. Not only are the colthing bits cheaper, but you can also make money by making things for your pards. It's been the only way I've been able to keep aquiring gear with a state salary...