Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

[M_Kupsch]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Christopher,

Soldiers on active campaign have little time for inspection and keeping a soldierly appearance; they are fighting for goodness sakes and pretty much the main thing that would have been cleaned would have been the weapon.

The point being is, we need to look at the event and then tailor the impression towards that. If you should look clean and in good repair, then that is how you should look. On the other hand, if you are depicting soldiers on campaign...better get dirty.

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

I think I had sorta a Gettysburg the movie moment with this... Makes me think of the scene with Lee "I woke up this morning and thought that he would not have wanted to fight here, yes sir I would have thought he would have moved on " etc etc something like that.
That's how I felt about the Fword... I thought in 6 years they would have gone away. I thought they would have at least opened one or two books and the themed campers would have gone on to ren-fairs, rendezvous, and polluted other eras with their "interesting" interpretations of history.

They say history is written by the victors, then why do I still see so many losers around?

Cheers,

[Charles Heath]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Mr. Heath,
Being a long time participant yourself, I'd like to hear your opinion. Does this mean that you think that the vitural forums hurt the hobby? Quite right, vitural players do very little, in fact, do mostly groussing.

Judith,

Communication via the Internet is the single greatest thing to happen to the hobby in the past 20 years. And here you thought you'd get another Tolstoy-length essay.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Judith,

Communication via the Internet is the single greatest thing to happen to the hobby in the past 20 years. And here you thought you'd get another Tolstoy-length essay.

I'm of a mixed opinion on that. I've seen some great things result of the internet forums. I've also seen groups torn apart and best friends put to hating each other over some silly spelling error.

You think I'm joking but it's actually happened.

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

for people who take life too seriously, they will always find a way to ruin relationships either online or another way

I'm of a mixed opinion on that. I've seen some great things result of the internet forums. I've also seen groups torn apart and best friends put to hating each other over some silly spelling error.

You think I'm joking but it's actually happened.

[Dreamer42]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

When I first read the question regarding this poll I wondered if we ask ourselves this because (1) we really do see a decline or (2) we ourselves have bcome aware of the need for improvment(s) so those who stand out are all the more obvious to us now.

I consider myself one of the lucky ones to have joined a unit just as this awareness was grabbing hold in the late '90s. Today our unit has a strong goal of improving the all-around impression (the man, the equipments, and the rations)

In regards to knapsack inspection I would like to add my .02 as a personal experience from last year. Here in Texas we have few high-quality events to attend. A local Boy Scout chapter was hosting a Civil War Days event about a year ago and I noticed none of the other 30 or so reenactors had "The Look" of being a soldier. I won't say I have this perfected, but I'm pretty dang close if I do say so. Something very interesting and unexpected happened. My wife needed the car keys, which were in my haversack, so I began digging. As I was setting things on the ground I quickly noticed that there was a crowd of people standing around me watching. So, I simply moved to the treeline near the other displays and laid out my gear, first emptying my haversack, then my knapsack and cartridge box. Little things like stamps, hand sewn tobacco bag, authentically rolled "dummy" cartridges, a hand knitted scarf, a slice of salt pork, some parched corn and a well used canteen half all contributed to making the story more believable.
People were amazed that a soldier was expected to live on so little, yet so much was able to fit in the appropriate bags. For the next 3 1/2 hours I eplained about each item and answered questions about my mid-war AOT unifrom and gear. A few times I was asked if the items I had were original. I was surprized that a lot of people had a solid grasp of the war and the soldier's role, yet there were so many misunderstandings of how life was or how the war was fought.
It was my fervent hope, that while I was amoung numerous "'streamers", that I would rub off on them and they too would have their eyes opened. I felt like I stood out from the others, but I tried not to look down my nose or criticized and tried to be an example. I plan on going back this fall. Maybe a couple of us will display both Union and Confed gear and have a recruiting booth.

- Jay Reid
Dreamer42
9th Texas/165th NY

[Spinster]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Uh oh, Terre saw us when we really were filthy ragamuffins (day 4 of BGR) and now we can't go back!

Mike Montgomery, a good friend and great historian, would simply leave his hats and uniforms outside. One time a hurricane did a great speed-up on the whole break in process. Another time a dog got hold of a jacket and ran off with it. When he got it back it was pretty near perfect :D

MMMMMmmmm---wrong username Doug. There's more than one person with my last name in the world---despite the fact that Dear Husband's people do their best to reduce their numbers with each generation ;)

Cleanliness and the need for it is entirely dependent on the impression and scenario. What is foolish is artificial dirtiness. Wear it, live it.

And what is remarkable is after only 4 days of dirt, I was honestly hard pressed to tell one army from another. That likely had something to do with the fact that I had been on site for 7 days at that point, but not much.

[DougCooper]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

MMMMMmmmm---wrong username Doug. There's more than one person with my last name in the world---despite the fact that Dear Husband's people do their best to reduce their numbers with each generation ;)

Cleanliness and the need for it is entirely dependent on the impression and scenario. What is foolish is artificial dirtiness. Wear it, live it.

OOPS - I gotta stop posting in my sleep - sorry. Ditto on artificial dirtiness.

Live it, wear it - that's a good mantra.

[JimConley]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Communication via the Internet is the single greatest thing to happen to the hobby in the past 20 years.

Heath,
I have to disagree with you here. It has certainly made communication about events easier, and sometimes sharing research gems, but ultimately, it has almost killed the hobby.

No longer do folks get as much out of an event because it’s built up as the best thing since sliced bread on the boards. And no longer is someone a stellar participant because they read a lot, now it's what is the latest thing on the AC forums. Too many people have gained status as icons or infamous devils because of the internet.

More people should use the internet for its best purpose, sharing information, communicating, and bettering the hobby, not making a name for themselves by sounding like they know what they're talking about.

[DougCooper]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Heath,
I have to disagree with you here. It has certainly made communication about events easier, and sometimes sharing research gems, but ultimately, it has almost killed the hobby.

No longer do folks get as much out of an event because it’s built up as the best thing since sliced bread on the boards. And no longer is someone a stellar participant because they read a lot, now it's what is the latest thing on the AC forums. Too many people have gained status as icons or infamous devils because of the internet.

More people should use the internet for its best purpose, sharing information, communicating, and bettering the hobby, not making a name for themselves by sounding like they know what they're talking about.

Indeed. Its even stanger than that Jim - now when some folks meet in the field they talk about the internet!

The internet has removed the telephone and human face to face discourse as the prime mover in the hobby, and that is bad. It has created two personalities for some folks and internet courage is rampant. Indeed, there are two hobbies. With only so much time in one's life, I am convinced that there are many of the 5000 members here who have never been in the field. It has also reinforced the notion that until you look someone in the eye, you have no clue who the person is.

The most valuable thing I have yet done in this hobby - BGR, was begun 1.5 years prior in a room at the Mansfield Historic Site. I did not know then how powerful that meeting was - all the principles were there, looked each other in the eye and shook hands, many for the first time. We put faces with names and pledged to do our best to make it work. We were on the hook for accountability. That simple act enabled us to endure any amount of on-line grief and confusion that followed to a wildly successful event, featuring participants from Seattle to Great Britain.

In the old days we gathered info via newsletters and phone calls, had our annual meetings and selected the schedule. We showed up to the events and worked like dogs to bring it all together. You weren't bombarded by rumors and naysayers and dire warnings of heat, bugs, bears, bad commanders, high mountains, long distances, bad force ratios, rampant second guessing, etc. We just did it...and we had a great time.

The newsletters contained a trememdous amount of good information on improving one's impressions, vendor lists, artifact research, etc. Honestly, I find that better than the back and forth discourse that passes for research on here at times. The field was the chance to put it all in practice. Because you were publishing articles and such, it demanded that sources be cited and make sense.

The internet has split us in to tribes. The hardcores now can avoid any contact with the outside world, whereas before, we showed up at the big events and carved out a niche, and maybe convinced a few folks to join us. The hobby was may more homogenous and the big events worked much better because of our leadership. The small hardcore LH events were just as good, if not better than they are today, as the planning was done on the phone, with fewer people and more clarity. Don't get me wrong, the spate of campaigner events is better than ever, but even those are disected like live frogs before they even take place, and often killed.

The internet flattens out and subverts the chain of command at times, and interrupts the correct flow of information.

But most importantly, we used to put all of our energy into our impressions, instead of typing.

The only good thing the internet has brought to the hobby is event deconfliction and speed of communication - and we still goon the event deconfliction up.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Hallo!

Indeed...

Ah, the Good Olde Way Back Daze of large telephones with wires, and the monthly 60 page unit "newsletter" that came in the "s-mail."
Sigh...

Curt
When men were men, and men were boys, and girls were not gal-troops or something like that Mess

[csuniforms]

Re: Authenticity Levels-Real or Imagined? Future.

Hello, Been doing Civil War for 35 years and our Regiment the 46th Illinois won several major awards or trophies at Parades, Drill Competitions, and Shooting Events like the most authentic team North-South Skirmish Association at least 3 times that I can remember. At that time we were all in our twenties and early thirties and we did look good for the 70's and 80's. Today, most of us are in our late 50's and 60's, and we just don't cut it anymore. Well, maybe as a homegaurd. Our kit was the best we could find-- and we did use people like Charlie Childs, Jeff Waldren, and Pat Kline for wares and cloth, and were around some of the early researchers like Fred Gaede, Col. Fred Todd, Mike McAffee, Les Jensen, Steve Osman, and even Don Troiani and the like. We all knew each other, or of each other and we didn't have the internet to communicate so used the dial-up phones or even [WOW]:confused_ a letter. I have kept all of this written correspondence for the past 30 years and there are some real gems of info. in there. What does this have to do with the Authenticity question and the hobby?

My suggestion or observation is to keep doing just what you are doing now. Find like minded people who are really interested in portraying the Authentic Federal or Confederate Soldier. If that is what you enjoy and can really get into, then that is whom you should be seeking. Join the Authentics in your area, meet new freinds and dive into the research for the Regiment you portray and the kit they used. If you like the guys as freinds you reenact with now, then at least try to upgrade your kit for that Regiment and see what happens.

Underatand also, as you get older and you will! that there is a thousand things you can do Civil War that does not include Battle Reenactments or Living History. There are Round Tables, Military Museum Clubs, Tours, The Company of Military Historians, Book Clubs, The North-South Skirmish Association, and just freinds and family where you can do Battlefields or Museums at your convenience.-- You can join the Grant Club, the Lee Club, The Freinds of Gettysburg, go crazy and have FUN

I can see the frustration with you kids, all you attention deficit disorder folks, (We didn't have ADD in school when I was little, you just got a crack to the head if you were not paying attention) The frustration that 5,000 other Civil War people dont want to be Authentic like you. Forget them, and save yourself all the aggravation-- Like I said find a group that fits your needs and level--

What I believe what is needed in the hobbby is a new way of doing things-- different scenarios-- Campaigning is one, Living History at Battlefields and Historic Sites is wonderful. Uniform Competition is another suggestion, Drill Competition is another, Music Competition is another, bring it to an even higher level. The Mainstream events, go or stay home, but dont complain about them-- They are what they are-- Do what you want to do-- All this is supposed to be FUN, RELAXING and SOCIAL.

Tom Arliskas
Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown
CSuniforms

[Spongebucket]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Amen, Tom.
You're words are truth. This coming from a "veteran" of 25yrs. All you mentioned from the days before internet ( and yes there was) to the activities when Father Time shows up.
Good all the way around.
Cheers,
Joe Blunt

[Hank Trent]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

I suppose it's easy to say the internet is of little benefit, if you were lucky enough to find other reenactors who wanted to do what you did, when communication was limited to in-person, telephone and letters. I was never able to. I tried. There were years I was attending 20 events a year, in the Ohio-KY-Indiana area, in the early 1990s.

But imagine me going only to the events announced in Camp Chase Gazette within 4-5 hour driving distance, and expecting by luck to find hardcore immersion events. That's what I wanted my hobby to be after hours, mixed with public interpretation in the day.

I found all the tea-party-lecture civilians and the Monty-Python-routine military--the hardkewl level--but couldn't really get beyond that. Events were nothing but frustration, and I was ready to quit.

It's so much easier now to get in touch with other like-minded reenactors, regardless of geography, get to know each other beforehand, agree on what experience you want from the weekend, and show up at events with the historic information in hand, ready to reenact.

The experiences I found through nearby reenactors and friend-of-friend introductions were nothing compared to what I've found through internet-arranged events and introductions.

And that's not even touching on the incredible amount of research information available online. Remember the days when one reprint or poor-condition original book cost $15 up? Now there are hundreds online free, and searchable besides. No comparison.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Hallo!

Agreed...
I don't know that much but, I would have to say that in the last 10 years of "Internet," I may have learned more and moved further toward the far right of the F/M/C/P/H/A Paradigm with like-minded pards- than in the 20 years prior to that- even with a degree with a specialization in the Civil War era, a 3,000 book personal library, access to museums, a CW collection, and friends and acquaintances with collections. (And being considered as "Hardcore" in 1986...)

IMHO, as with any "coin," there are two sides and maybe even an third with a narrow edge... but there are "pluses" and "minuses" to be weighed and evaluated at a personal level.

If I had to say anything, it might be there are now lads who are light years ahead of where "we," were or "I" was, 30 years ago. Yet, there are lads who are the same as they were 30 years ago.

Such is the Nature of the Beast.

Curt
Who thinks CD's are clearer than 8 Tracks which are clearer than records Mess
Proud Member of the That Was Then This Is Now Rifles