Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

[Drygoods]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

[QUOTE=Spinster;66992]Mrs Peebles, Just a caution--if you ever come far enough east to catch Uncle Tom and shower him with kisses--his whiskers are a mite pricky and tickly :p.
QUOTE]

Mrs. Lawson,
Oh! no worries there, it would never happen, I'd never have the nerve to do such a thing!:p Sorry, or perhaps congratulations, Mr. Yearby, you're safe from my shower of kisses.

Still, it just goes to show you how a comical suggestion can be taken into a completely different direction. Perhaps the missed boat, and dock, are simply missing because we find ourselves on the great Salt Lake?:wink_smil

Nope, the key is as the Trent's suggest, if you can't find the interpretaion that you hope for, than create your own. Yes, I know that I sound a horrid whiner, but it would be so much easier if we had another LH interpretor less than 250 miles away to share ideas with. So, even if you have to create your own events, just be certain to do it well, as the Work Woman's Guide often suggests "do it up nicely."

[LindaTrent]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

but it would be so much easier if we had another LH interpretor less than 250 miles away to share ideas with.

Yeah, don't I know the feeling. :cry_smile The only person closer is Hank, and he and I think alike, so bouncing ideas is pretty difficult. :D I can think of some other LH interpretors who live within the vicinity, but they don't support what I want, so I can't bounce ideas off them either. If you have someone like minded within 275 miles, you're lucky. For years the one I always bounced ideas off of was 565 miles away, and even further from most of the actual events! Abby lived in Tomah, Wisconsin and was my main bouncer for events in KY, WV, VA, and NC. ;)

What's nice is the internet has pulled us within kbps of each other, the mileage isn't an issue, like it used to be with the USPS, and the phone bills aren't as bad either. Especially when one puts the other in their circle.

So, even if you have to create your own events, just be certain to do it well

Exactly. You may have to compromise on the site to some degree, especially (from what you've told me) due to where you live. All sites have their benefits and their detriments, you'll never find the perfect site. But EBUFU isn't just about the site. It's about attitude, it's about trying to raise the bar above where you're at, and to me -- it's about promising the stars and delivering the stars, the sun, and the moon.

Don't start out with a large event, come up with ideas where you can have a small handful of people. Maybe just a friend or two, and gradually work your way up. If it's anything like what was experienced in the east you'll keep getting new blood and after a while lose old blood. And don't forget that you can also do carpe eventums even at the worst farb fests.

Well, after saying all this I've certainly put the pressure on the Trial event. And I will give everything I have mentally, physically and emotionally to make certain that my promises are delivered.

Linda.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Hallo!

Some sure do... it would seem.


Curt
Equal Oportunity Annoyer Mess

No actual boards or fora were harmed during the writing of this post. This is a fictional emoticon. Any similarities between any real boards or fora, or emoticon, is strictly coincidental.

[csuniforms]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?-Wisconsin

This is interesting, was just shown a letter sent out to all the participants who volunteer at the OLD WOLRD WISCONSIN Civil War events in Eagle. OLD WORLD is a collection of original buildings with an authentic program of period farming methods and living history.

The powers at Old World have announced that they have raised their standards of authenticity and will only allow folks in to put on programs, who meet this new higher standard. Is this the wave of the future? Is this a good idea? Are you not cutting out a large segment of the Civil War Community? You must ask the question am I shooting myself in the foot? Am I going to make some folks angry by doing this? Is it not a better idea to have classes or seminars prior to an event and offer to present in written form these new standards, and a desire to educate? Maybe they are, and by offering classes or directions they can cover themselves.

To an individual who works hard and long on working on an authentic impression of the period, either civilian or military this might seem like a good program, hoping maybe to force some of the fence sitters to go a step further in their impressions so they can attend. BUT, AFTER READING ALL THE THREADS ON THIS SITE AND OTHERS-- MANY WILL NOT AND FOR WHATEVER REASON JUST DONT AND WONT.

The whole idea at Old World is that they already have a very high level of authenticity in their staff and they want to keep that level up.

I believe that it all [authenticity level] depends where and when the individual started in this hobby and with whom. Chances are very good if you started 20 plus years ago as a mainstreamer with a mainstream team-- just a bunch of folks doing Civil War, and have enjoyed it, that is what you are today and will continue in the future-- If you started in the last 10 years and joined an authentic group-- that is what you do and that is how you reenact. You might have started this second group yourself or found others who think like you do-- and understand [read and research] the differences in impressions, and today 2007, you enjoy and conform to a higher level of living history because of that.

As a post-note-- I have found that there are many, or a collection of indiviuals, who all they do all day is post on the internet-- Internet polls by no means comprise a "real quorum" or speak for everyone on Civil War topics. Many people in this hobby who do own a computer, say they never post on these sites or read them. They say they are to busy or just are not into writing any posts--

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[Hank Trent]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?-Wisconsin

To an individual who works hard and long on working on an authentic impression of the period, either civilian or military this might seem like a good program, hoping maybe to force some of the fence sitters to go a step further in their impressions so they can attend. BUT, AFTER READING ALL THE THREADS ON THIS SITE AND OTHERS-- MANY WILL NOT AND FOR WHATEVER REASON JUST DONT AND WONT.

Of course. By the same token, if you put on an event with low standards, it will also anger some people, make some people feel all their hard work is unwanted and unappreciated, and therefore make them not want to attend. There's no way to put on an event that will please everyone.

No site is obligated to turn itself over to every reenactor who demands to come. If reenactors don't want to meet higher standards, they're welcome to put on an event with lower ones, and I don't think there are any shortage of those events. There was just a thread on another forum complaining there were too many conflicting mainstream events to attend in just one state (Kentucky), and I expect it's similar in other states also.

I believe that it all [authenticity level] depends where and when the individual started in this hobby and with whom. Chances are very good if you started 20 plus years ago as a mainstreamer with a mainstream team-- just a bunch of folks doing Civil War, and have enjoyed it, that is what you are today and will continue in the future--

Well, the key word is "enjoyed it." I started 19 years ago with a mainstream group, and I hated it.

I sure hope you're not saying that everyone who's been in the hobby more than 10 years is a militant mainstreamer who refuses to improve.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[rkg]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Tom,
What is your point? Do you believe that this event should be open to all comers? People that don't care to improve their knowledge or kit should be allowed to participate because in years past the authenticity standards were not as high as what OWW would now like them to be? I'm not grasping what you are trying to say.

Robert Gobtop
ONV

[csuniforms]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Hello, My point and belief is that there should be room for everyone in this hobby. Yes, there are different levels of authenticity, and different folks or parks who sponsor hardcore or authentic living history events, and expect a certain set of people to show up, and dont want the others. --

My real concern is who are we turning away? Some newby millionaire who might donate to preservation. General Grant's great great great nephew who has his Uncles papers stuck in a trunk-- You do not know, and by doing this you might be upsetting people who just get a bad taste in their mouth and feel unwanted.

The only way to get around this is to announce a class or seminar on what exactly the standards are. I know we do that whenever an authentic event comes up with the list of excepted uniform items and accoutrements, but would it not be better to make a video or disk or offer a list of web sites that show what your about. We forget that everyday new people step up who have no idea of what the heck they are doing.

As to the mainstreamers who might get angry if a large group of authentics show up for the Battle, and want to camp "in the woods" I can only say they have to be less angry and open some form of communication.

Tom Arliskas
Csuniforms

[paulcalloway]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

This site has never been about lowering standards to the lowest common denominator and events shouldn't operate that way either.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

The only way to get around this is to announce a class or seminar on what exactly the standards are. I know we do that whenever an authentic event comes up with the list of excepted uniform items and accoutrements, but would it not be better to make a video or disk or offer a list of web sites that show what your about. We forget that everyday new people step up who have no idea of what the heck they are doing.

I think this happens today on an informal basis as a sort of "buddy system." Usually (as I know it) when a guy who is new to "this" hobby wants to try it out, they generally find a member or mess with whom they attend their first event. This guy(s) provides the coaching and gear advice to the newbie.

A generalized or systematic "how to go authentic" set of instructions for 'streamers who want to try a better event without committing a faux pas (how'd I do on that, Frenchie :tounge_sm) is an interesting idea.

[csuniforms]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

This site has never been about lowering standards to the lowest common denominator and events shouldn't operate that way either.

I am not for lowering standards by any means-- and I support and enjoy attending events that are truly authentic in dress and presentation. I am merely stating by raising the level for participation we leave a segment of people out of the loop.-- Is that a bad thing?-- some say no, some yes.

Authenticity is a touchy subject. I quit my post as a member of the NSSA Uniform Committee because the word, "authentic" was feared by every mainstreamer in the organization. They did not want to have anything on uniforms printed in their publication! Said it was a waste of space!

I gues we just go on and bite our lip every once in awhile--

Tom Arliskas
csuniforms

[Charles Heath]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

John,

That publication was the "School of the Campaigner." Considering the information is at least nine years old, I don't know if it would be worth reprinting without a major re-editing. A number of us have talked about that project for a while, but at the same time why bother to crank out such a publication when so much information is online for free.

I'll say this as nice as I can: Some of this thread smacks of the No Child Left Behind policy that hasn't exactly been a success story in public education.

[LindaTrent]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Hello, My point and belief is that there should be room for everyone in this hobby.

Hi Tom,

I firmly believe that there is room for everyone in the hobby, and that all styles of events have a right to exist. However, I also believe that there's not room for everyone at the same event.

My real concern is who are we turning away?... You do not know, and by doing this you might be upsetting people who just get a bad taste in their mouth and feel unwanted.

Who are we turning away from what? EBUFU events? Mainstream events? Not everyone has the same goals in the hobby, which is why there are different styles of events. What if that same millionaire is looking to get away from his cushy life-style and wants to attend events where he wears the appropriate clothing, cooks and eats period foods, sleep out under the stars, march in 10 miles... Wouldn't he be disappointed at a mainstream event? You're assuming that he would enter the hobby a mainstreamer; I'm assuming that he'd enter as a hardcore. :)

Welcoming everyone into a c/p/h event would be, well, going back 10 years to being stuck in mainstream camps again. Been there, done that, had the tee-shirt (literally). I remember being in a mainstream group and attending an annual meeting years ago. I suggested that perhaps I could have just one campfire that would be for people who wanted to be in first person. No one would be forced to be there, people could come and just sit quietly and listen, or partake in the discussion, just as long as they didn't talk about modern stuff... the attacks were vicious (during the meeting!). People yelling that they have the right to go anywhere they want during an event, and that any campfire with space was space where they could sit and talk about their own thing... I was ready to leave the hobby. The year was 1999. Suddenly something new was in the wing -- Outpost 2000 -- and the excitement returned.

Personally, I think where people feel uncomfortable is when they play with others who aren't like minded. Reenactors are responsible for finding events and fellow living historians that suit them. That means for some it'll be the mega (and not so mega) fests, for others mainstream, and for others still campaigner and/or progressive and/or hardcore events.

As a civilian I can tell you that people who are attending their first immersion-style event (the only kind I go to anymore) are given mentors -- people that the first-timer gets to know personally online and hang out with at the event. A person who guides them in clothing, gear, and sees to it that they have what they need and have a great time at the event. And yep, there's the occasional person who tries it, doesn't like it, and returns to their mainstream lifestyle. That's okay, as we said at the beginning, there's room for everyone in the hobby, just not always at the same event.

If participants read the rules and guidelines of events, ask questions to the organizer when they don't understand, and know what is expected of them -- if they don't wanna do it, then there are plenty of other events that same weekend, and probably closer to home.

Linda.

[GeraldDuval]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Well said. I'll agree. To each there own. This hobby is what you make of it. While i think the mainstreamer beer and powder family fest is rather silly, They can have they're own event.....I'll just avoid it.

[Balthauser]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline?

Tom,

As the point of contact for the Civil War program at Old World Wisconsin, I'd like to take a moment to chime in.

Old World Wisconsin is a state-run outdoor living history museum. Therefore, the museum has every right to decide what sort of programs it offers to its visitors. It also has every right to decide the level of quality that these programs need to meet before they are offered to the visitors as well.

Terry Sorchy and I, off of the top of our heads, could easily count about a dozen mainstream-level Civil War events that are offered in our area for the 2007 season; but could only count two CP&H events — Old World Wisconsin being one of them.

While mainstream groups have a season filled with events that are 4 hours away or less, most of the events that we have been attending are over 12 hours away. I think we're entitled to have at least two event options within our own backyard — or is this not permissible?

The point I'm making is that there is a plethora of event opportunities in Southern Wisconsin/Northern Illinois for mainstream groups to attend and enjoy. So why is it such a travesty if the Civil War program at Old World Wisconsin now caters to CP&H living historians? Aren't CPH living historians allowed to have a couple of events that cater to their needs?

Thanks!

[csuniforms]

Re: Authenticity Levels: Progress or Decline? OLD WORLD

"The point I'm making is that there is a plethora of event opportunities in Southern Wisconsin/Northern Illinois for mainstream groups to attend and enjoy. So why is it such a travesty if the Civil War program at Old World Wisconsin now caters to CP&H living historians? Aren't CPH living historians allowed to have a couple of events that cater to their needs?"

Hello Dave, Of course Living Historians do, and should be allowed to have events that are certainly authentic [as the original] and bring this hobby to a higher level for the participants and the public. Yes, there are many mainstream Civil War Family type events in Wisconsin, Northern Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa that a person can attend if they so wish.-- Wisconsin should in fact have more of these "authentic" events and I am sure the new Kenosha Civil War Museum is going host more of these type of Living History events in the future. In fact, I am so very happy to see that in our local, Wisconsin, we have the folks available to put on a historically accurate presentation so visually and with the expertise they do. I think you guys are great, and am proud to associated with you.

Again, my only concern is how do we handle the people who show up and are told they cannot participate because they "dont measure up".-- To answer my own question, I believe any type of advertising done for these type of events, should state to the public that they are put on by members of a certain "named organization", that the event is a "closed event", and requires a higher level of authenticity to participate--. That someone in the group be deemed the historical representative of the group who will explain to the public at large and to anyone interested what participation in the future entails, and have handouts available that explain the higher level of authenticity the public is viewing. The whole focus should be on education. Of course have fun, and I am sure the Old World event will become a premier event in the future in the Midwest.


CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas