Civilian Sack Coat

[RobWiseman]

I am making a Civilian Sack Coat and need input on a construction detail.

Would exterior patch pockets be appropriate, rather than slit pockets?


Thank you,
Rob Wiseman

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Civilian Sack Coat

Rob,

This question might be better answered by others but here is some basic info.

The 19th century sack coat came in an incredible number of variations. I have seen coats with patch, faced, and welted pockets.

Given the number of variation, I would recommend finding a documented original and copying that. Short of that, another option is consulting period fashion magazines or patterns in the construction of your coat. I've had "experts" tell me things like "all period civilian coats had three pockets" and that's just wrong.

Please, don't just mix and match. I've seen guys take a collar off one pattern, a lapel off another, add a few pockets and VOILA! You have fudge!

My other recommendation is just to go to Corner Clothiers www.cornerclothiers.com and have them make you a good one.

[vbetts]

Re: Civilian Sack Coat

This is more just general information on civilian sack coats, but I thought it might be useful. It is all from this thesis:

Meyer, Deborah Jane Colton. "Virginia City, Montana Territory: 'The
Social City': An Interpretive Look at the Coats of the Steamboat
Bertrand." M.S. thesis, University of Missouri-Columbia, 1990.

There were 61 sack coats on the Bertrand. "Identified
by crate information, 28 of the 61 coats--nearly half--were manufactured
by the firm of Young and Company of St. Louis, Missouri...Many of the
sack coats of the Bertrand exhibit striped, checked, or plaid material,
although further study of waistcoats and trousers would be needed to
determine if the sack coats found are part of ditto suit ensembles. All
of the sack coats bound for Vivion and Simpson feature rather narrow
collars with rounded or square corners. These single-breasted sack
coats have lapels that tend to be rather narrow in width, although a
small number sported wider lapels. Most of the sack coats examined
feature a breast pocket on the left, and have a waist-level pocket on
the right, although some coats feature waist pockets on both sides with
smaller pockets directly above the waist pockets. These pockets were
constructed in the welt technique. There is an abundance of
top-stitching along all edges of the coat, including front openings,
pockets, collars, and sleeves. The use of decorative braiding was also
used along coat edges, i.e. sleeves, pockets, collars and front
openings. The buttons used include: leather, hard rubber, metal, and
cloth-covered forms. On one coat, frogs (corded or braided loops) were
used as fasteners instead of buttons. Many of the coats appear to have
had interlining (composed of either linen, wool or perhaps a horsehair
blend) which has deteriorated. Some coats are identified as having an
interlining, however, it was used only in areas needing interfacing such
as the lapels and collar. The coats were not fully interlined as the
preliminary description indicates. In general the sack coats are in
poorer condition than the two styles of coats described previously."

1 coat--black and gray tweed
1 coat--brownish gray with black vertical stitching
1 coat--dark grayish-brown
2 coats--grayish-brown
2 coats--black and white tweed
4 coats--black
5 coats--brown
5 coats--brownish-gray with white pinstripe
7 coats--blackish-gray with white pinstripe
10 coats--dark gray
11 coats--brown with black and white pinstripe
12 coats--brown with black 3/16" vertical stripe.

There are photographs of one unrestored solid color sack coat with
decorative braiding and one unrestored striped sack coat, but they are
only photocopies in this volume and very poor. The source is the Desoto
National Wildlife Refuge and Steamboat Exhibit, so they probably have
the original negatives.

Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net

[fahtz]

Bertrand Sack Coats

I will see if i can find my pictures from the bertrand, I believe i have pictures of the sack coats in question in the thesis, also i have various other pictures of stuff. I believe it is time for me and the pards to go back to the bertrand and examine some more stuff and some of the old stuff. Does anyone have any requests that i need to fill out on my form to view? i have sack coat and trousers down... what else? Also Vicki, are you going to visit the museum of the bertrand while you are in missouri for the conferance this summer?

[vbetts]

Re: Civilian Sack Coat

Summer is so far away, I haven't made any definite plans on side trips. I've got several other major projects between now and then, plus my sister is due to deliver twins in August, so that may make a difference. It's a definite possibility, though. There's so much to do around the Kansas City area on up to the Bertrand.

Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net

[markj]

Re: Civilian Sack Coat

Greetings,

You may enjoy this image. It appears to be of Southern provenance and shows a gentleman wearing a sack coat:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3268382598&category=13704

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Jack Booda]

Re: Civilian Sack Coat

Okay Mark, I give up. Great photo, but why are the guy's buttons (coat and vest) on the "wrong" side? is there any way to get the negative reversed on a CDV? or is this "proof" you could order them both ways?

This thread is about construction, so we don't Rob Wiseman to get the buttons wrong! :D