Civilian overcoats

[jwoodli]

Does anyone have any good pictures of civilian mens overcoats or know of any in collection that have been photographed. I recently picked up a very interesting double-breasted overcoat from a thrift store made of beautiful herring-bone blue wool. I would like to see if it is similar to any originals, and if it's worth deconstructing.

[Huck]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Atlanta History Center has a civilian overcoat in their collection. Members of this board have seen it.

http://www.atlhist.org/imgdtl.cfm?imageid=316&cid=380

http://www.figleafpatterns.com/ItemDetail.php?ItemIdx=17&PHPSESSID=e368dfffa8abbaeb2ccdf38d995fb5d8

Peachtree Mercantile Civilian Overcoat c. 1864

This sewing pattern was drafted from an original jean cloth overcoat in the collection of the Atlanta History Center.

This civilian-style overcoat from the Archibald Smith family in Roswell, Georgia, was made by Anne Margaret Magill Smith (1807-1887) for her son, Archibald "Archie" Smith (1844-1923), who is known to have worn it while serving with the Georgia Battalion of Cadets during the winter of 1864-1865.

In addition there is a cape sewing pattern also drafted from an original cape in the collection of the Atlanta History Center.

This overcoat is meant to be worn over a period suit or uniform; with or without the cape.It reaches mid calf and the sleeves reach fingertip length.

The original overcoat was made of a wool jean cloth with cotton warp and wool weft. The lining is a heavy cotton. The cape is a homespun wool with a red twill wool lining.

The pattern is available in one size range; men's sizes S through XXXL.

[Huck]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Here is a copy of the coat in question that Chris Daley made.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Here are a few images of civilian overcoats, from LC-DIG-cwpb-03974, "Aquia Creek Landing, Va. Clerks of the Commissary Depot by railroad car and packing cases" and Number: LC-DIG-cwpb-03709, "Aquia Creek Landing, Va. Personnel in front of Quartermaster's Office."

Another great set to search through on the LOC is the group shots of Quartermaster and War Dept. employees on the steps of the Corcoran Art gallery. Lots of great overcoats there!

Hope this helps.
N'joy!

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Ack! Forgot this one!

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Civilian overcoats

!^@%#! Post, you silly but awesomely hardcore picture!

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Civilian overcoats

I recently picked up a very interesting double-breasted overcoat from a thrift store made of beautiful herring-bone blue wool. I would like to see if it is similar to any originals, and if it's worth deconstructing.

Speaking of herringbone, does anyone know of any surviving garments from the CW era made of tweed? I know they had it from what this says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweed_(cloth)
I'm just curious as to what patterns they had then.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Civilian overcoats

The Atlanta History Center's Overcoat is a great example of a homemade overcoat made from homespun materials, but is not very representative of the overcoats being mass produced by the garment industry or ones being made in tailor shops. The quality of the workmanship, materials and tailoring of the garments offered by tailors or the garment industry would have been made of much finer wool material with superior tailoring , these coats could also be purchased at second hand clothing stores for seriously discounted prices.

As the pictures Jason posted show, quality is the key. As it is today a wool overcoat is the most expensive garment in a man's wardrobe and the attention to detail and the quality of workmanship found on originals is something of a wonder for modern eyes. Finding a vintage overcoat at a thrift store or vintage clothing store that compares to mid-19th century overcoats just isn't going to happen and re-working the garment isn't going to make it any better. The cut of men's coats for this time period can't be matched by garments of other time periods, with their own unique cut. Moreover the kinds of materials popular with mid-19th century garments had all but fallen out of fashion by the turn of the century, Alpaca linings disappear (replaced by rayon linings in the 1920s) superfine is replaced by gabardine and serge, etc.

I've collected depression era men's overcoats and while they're beautiful in their own right they just don't compare to any of the mid-19th century garments in my collection.

Speaking of herringbone, does anyone know of any surviving garments from the CW era made of tweed?

I haven't had the pleasure of examining any original garments made from tweed as of yet, but yes the cloth did exist. So did many other fashionable textured fabrics such as cashmeres with a "marbled", "flecked" or "spotted" finish. The hero in Ask Mamma, 1858, wears: "a suit of tigerish tweed." pg. 208 Handbook of English Costume in the Nineteenth Century, C.W. Cunnington . I think many reenactors confuse these expensive fashionably textured fabrics for rough jean cloth in images. Food for thought.

[jwoodli]

Re: Civilian overcoats

I have a pattern for the Smith overcoat, and I hope to make it soon. Thanks for the pictures and info everyone. Does anyone make a quality coat, or are sack coats the main... I feel they are a bit over represented.

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Some additional images of men in/with overcoats.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Hoo-wee! Look at that quilting in the first fellow's coat!

[lukegilly13]

Re: Civilian overcoats

After a very cold period candlelight tour (in uniform) on a street in Fredericksbug, I became very interested in overcoats. I've greatly enjoyed the pictures of the civilian overcoats on this post. There is one thing that I cannot tell from pictures (and I cannot gain access to any originals)....
Was it more common for these civilian overcoats to be hand sewn or machine sewn? This question stems from my ignorance of clothing culture. Is there anyone out there who knows if a hand sewn overcoat would have been desired? In other words, was machine sewing more associated with an expensive garmet?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Was it more common for these civilian overcoats to be hand sewn or machine sewn? This question stems from my ignorance of clothing culture. Is there anyone out there who knows if a hand sewn overcoat would have been desired? In other words, was machine sewing more associated with an expensive garmet?

The sewing machine helped bring down cost of goods and increase production by streamlining the production process and reducing labor. An 1860s overcoat would have had both machine and hand sewing for different parts of the garment. The wild quilting patterns fashionable in men's coats of the 1860s were done by machine, generally with a chain stitch machine since quilting stitches don't undergo stress. The hand quilting patterns found on Antebellum men's coats are of fairly simple patterns and far less dense because of the time required to do the hand quilting.

If you're a man looking to walk into a ready-made clothing store and buy an overcoat in the 1860s you're more likely to find one with machine stitching, whereas tailor made garments would have far more, if not all, hand sewing resulting in a much higher cost.

A high quality overcoat is a high quality overcoat, regardless of whether its machine sewn or not. A badly handsewn coat wouldn't have been considered better than a high quality machine sewn coat. At the end of the day its all about the quality of the workmanship and fabric, the stitches, whether hand or machine, are meaningless.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Civilian overcoats

Thanks Ian! Very interesting!!!

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Civilian overcoats

...and for those of you wondering if your historical half might have afforded an overcoat, please don't forget that custom-tailored and "home-made" were not the only options. The "ready-made" industry was able to offer overcoats fairly easily (the fit doesn't need to be as precise and the machine could be used for construction). Every town had a "second-hand" market for less affluent folks to buy clothes, and it was an accepted part of life. It did not have quite the negative conotations we associate with "second-hand" today.