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Fabric for Overcoats

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  • Fabric for Overcoats

    Seems to be a lot of overcoat discussion going on, why stop now?

    I am having the A. Smth coat made, and I am really bad at fabrics. What is best?



    Can someone translate or even better have pictures of any of these fabrics?
    Kevin Whitehead


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  • #2
    Re: Fabric for Overcoats

    You might just want to give Ben a call and ask for a swatch card. That’s the best way to see what the fabric truly looks like plus you can actually expose the swatches and see how they fade out.

    regards,
    -Seth Harr

    Liberty Rifles
    93rd New York Coffee Cooler
    [I]
    "One of the questions that troubled me was whether I would ever be able to eat hardtack again. I knew the chances were against me. If I could not I was just as good as out of the service"[/I]
    [B]-Robert S. Camberlain, 64th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry[/B]

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    • #3
      Re: Fabric for Overcoats

      I may be mistaken, but I thought that County Cloth's "FGX" was woven particularly for reproductions of the Archiblad Smith overcoat.
      John Wickett
      Former Carpetbagger
      Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fabric for Overcoats

        Originally posted by LibertyHallVols View Post
        I may be mistaken, but I thought that County Cloth's "FGX" was woven particularly for reproductions of the Archiblad Smith overcoat.
        Not familiar with this, but I would love to see about it. Have a link?



        Oops, found it, ouch, kinda $$$
        Kevin Whitehead


        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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        • #5
          Re: Fabric for Overcoats

          Just based on observation the FGX is much darker than the tan jean on the archie smith jacket.
          2

          Brett "Homer" Keen
          Chicago
          [I]"Excessively spirited in the pranks and mischief of the soldier"[/I]

          OEF 03-04 [I]Truth Through Exploitation[/I]

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          • #6
            Re: Fabric for Overcoats

            Originally posted by kevinw33 View Post
            I am having the A. Smth coat made, and I am really bad at fabrics. What is best?
            Since you've posted this on the Civilian board, may I ask what you intend to do with this overcoat, or where the overcoat might have originated in your persona?

            If it has other than a military origin, none of Bent Tart's or Charlie Childs' fabrics may be suitable.
            Lynn Kessler
            Co. C
            Chesapeake Volunteer Guards
            The Southern Division

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fabric for Overcoats

              Originally posted by toccoa42 View Post
              Since you've posted this on the Civilian board, may I ask what you intend to do with this overcoat, or where the overcoat might have originated in your persona?

              If it has other than a military origin, none of Bent Tart's or Charlie Childs' fabrics may be suitable.
              This is me from a previous post:

              Kevin Whitehead


              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                Gents,

                I recently constructed a civilian overcoat using Ben Tarts wheat satinette and I lined it with a wool flannel. It is an extremely warm overcoat.

                Mr. Kessler, what leads you to this assumption?

                If it has other than a military origin, none of Bent Tart's or Charlie Childs' fabrics may be suitable.
                __________________
                Lynn Kessler
                Lowry's Battery
                ANV
                If I remember correctly, the Smith and Weller overcoats are both civilian coats and jeans cloth was used for their construction.
                Last edited by rmassella; 10-27-2008, 06:07 PM.
                [FONT="Times New Roman"]Robert Masella
                Wheeling Fencibles
                Pridgeon's Shenandoah Legion
                Southern Division

                "Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat" (The one whom God wants to destroy, he first makes mad): Col. S. Crutchfield, (Jackson's Chief of Artillery)[/FONT]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                  Originally posted by rmassella View Post
                  Gents,

                  I recently constructed a civilian overcoat using Ben's wheat satinette and lined it with a wool flannel. It is an extremely warm overcoat.

                  Mr. Kessler, what leads you to this assumption?



                  If I remember correctly, the Smith and Weller overcoats are both civilian.

                  Both coats may be of civilian origin, but that doesn't mean they're reflective of the vast majority of overcoats worn by civilians, especially those worn by the middle to upper class. Smith's overcoat was made by his mother from homespun materials, and Weller's overcoat was one of many purchased for the regiment by one of their officer's.

                  People need to stop thinking about jean cloth and homespun materials in general. Yes homespun and jean were widely available during the period, but mass produced high quality all wool cloth was far more common and even more readily available. For every one original civilian garment made from jean or satinette in existence there has to be at least 50 all wool garments.

                  My suggestions for overcoat fabric would be:

                  Cashmere
                  Chinchilla
                  Melton
                  Superfine wool
                  Doeskin wool
                  Kersey
                  Furs

                  Appropriate lining materials would be:

                  Alpaca
                  Silk/Wool Blends
                  Kerseymere
                  Satin
                  Ribbed Silk (I've seen this material used in several original frocks)
                  Very fine all wool cloth

                  There are far more options available than simply using jean or satinette. Of course its very important to examine as many original garments as possible before making any decisions, you'll never get a good idea of what's most appropriate until you do.
                  Ian McWherter

                  "With documentation you are wearing History, without it, it's just another costume."-David W. Rickman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                    If the "Archie Smith overcoat" is indeed Archie's wartime coat, rather than his brother's (and there is no reason to believe it is not Archie's), then it has an autumn 1864 date attached it. Anne Smith (Archie's mom) likely made it from material she purchased, not wove. Her big complaint had been for almost a year that all she could buy was UGLY BROWN JEANS. While this was something she could get commercially in war-racked Georgia, it is NOT at all what she was use to purchasing, nor what she wanted her boys wearing at any time, even if it was the fabric of patriotic (their secessionist patriotism) suffering.
                    On a side note, I have note examined it closely yet, but some have suggested the cape is made of a separate fabric. If so, it may be the cape off of brother Willie’s overcoat, based on Anne’s questions in letters. Also, both overcoats seem to have been based on the same pattern.
                    No answers, just a little background of “yes they did,” “no they didn’t want to.”
                    Pat Brown

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                    • #11
                      I also believe that the vast majority of civilian overcoats for the middle and upper classes were made from wool/woolen materials. I also believe that many individuals aspiring to reach the middle and upper social classes would have tried to purchase items as/if they were able to move up the social ladder. I was just trying to make the point that not every civilian overcoat produced during the war was made from wool. I am sure that some were made of other materials as cited earlier. A lot would have to do with the time period and economic status of the individual being portrayed, the availability of materials to construct the coat from, and who is producing the coat (tailor/sent from home). I’m sure that most people wanted to dress with the best items they could afford especially in the class conscience south, and factors such as economics, availability, and supply and demand continually played a role in which items they purchased or produced, but to totally dismiss an item may not always be best.

                      If it has other than a military origin, none of Bent Tart's or Charlie Childs' fabrics may be suitable.
                      Interesting discussion, thanks for the information in earlier posts.

                      __________________
                      Robert Masella

                      Chesapeake Volunteer Guard
                      5th Virginia, Co. K

                      "Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat" (The one whom God wants to destroy, he first makes mad)
                      Last edited by rmassella; 10-28-2008, 06:03 AM.
                      [FONT="Times New Roman"]Robert Masella
                      Wheeling Fencibles
                      Pridgeon's Shenandoah Legion
                      Southern Division

                      "Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat" (The one whom God wants to destroy, he first makes mad): Col. S. Crutchfield, (Jackson's Chief of Artillery)[/FONT]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                        Originally posted by kevinw33 View Post
                        Not familiar with this, but I would love to see about it. Have a link?

                        Oops, found it, ouch, kinda $$$
                        What's the difference, five bucks per yard? Have you sewn with his fabric before? Let me tell you, I've made garments with FHW, woolrich, and now Tart, plus a few others. The only stuff that's more finely woven that Childs' is Hainsworth! Other stuff unravels really bad. I made a coat out of Woolrich jeans earlier this year and easily lost 1/2" off of my seam allowances. The Tart stuff I'm using now is unravelling also, though not as severely as the Woolrich. However, I am finding myself not fully cutting out pieces so the unraveling will not encroach upon the seam allowance.

                        I'm not ranting here, rather just trying to help save you some frustration. $5 per yard may cost you more than that in sweat and frustration. Whenever possible, I like to help folks learn from my mistakes. :wink_smil

                        Good luck to you!
                        John Wickett
                        Former Carpetbagger
                        Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                          Another fabric worth consideration, although not on the Smith coat, would be corduroy. Just a thought.
                          John Spain
                          4th Tennessee / 25th Indiana

                          sigpic
                          "If you surrender, you will be treated as prisoners of war, but if I have to storm your works, you may expect no quarter." Forrest

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                          • #14
                            Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                            Originally posted by kevinw33 View Post
                            Ok. Having read that now, I'd say the family might have had access to a variety of different materials. You could use practically anything, even the heavier kersey wools. None of them would be out of the possibility of fabric color and weave ranges.

                            If you were replicating the coat exactly as preserved, you'd have to use jean cloth. I understand that's what the coat is made from, if I'm thinking of the correct coat. The original color is probably indeteminate by now, with fading and aging. I'd pick either a darker gray or blue jeans cloth from either Charlie Childs or Ben Tart. If you use Ben Tart's jean cloth, you should wash it once in cold water and let it air dry, then iron it. The cloth, as I understand it, has not been "finished", meaning what I just described. Finishing tightens up the weave a bit and reduces unravelling at the cut edges. Charllie's will still unravel a bit, but not as much as Ben's. I've worked with both, and I like them both. I didn't "finish" Ben's either, but it worked well enough right off the roll.

                            I'd like to hear what experience you have with the coat while you are building it, as I would like to do the same, probably next spring or summer.
                            Last edited by toccoa42; 10-28-2008, 08:34 AM.
                            Lynn Kessler
                            Co. C
                            Chesapeake Volunteer Guards
                            The Southern Division

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fabric for Overcoats

                              Originally posted by Ian McWherter View Post
                              Yes homespun and jean were widely available during the period, but mass produced high quality all wool cloth was far more common and even more readily available.
                              Thank you. Exactly the point I was attempting to make.
                              Lynn Kessler
                              Co. C
                              Chesapeake Volunteer Guards
                              The Southern Division

                              Comment

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