Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

I am straining my brain here trying to recall this correctly, but it seems that within the past few months I have seen an image on this forum of some military men and one of them is wearing a cravat with a shirt designed to have a paper collar attached, but he has no collar and the tie actually appears to be tied about his bare neck.

Enjoying the discussion immensely and would also like to see the triangluar cravat folding instructions. I'm wondering if the cravat should be ironed flat at the folds to help it hold it's shape or not?

Ian,

I'm under the impression that the most common cravat during the CW period would have been silk. Based on something you said earlier, are cotton and linens also appropriate? I abandoned my old black cotton cravat thinking it was improper. I'd love to feel comfortable wearing it, as it was comfortable to wear.

thanks,

The catalog of the Great Exhibition of 1851 mentions checked cotton cravats manufactured in Glasgow (p. 75); Richard Cobden, the Apostle of Free Trade (1865), mentions a man in a light cotton cravat -- there are many hits for such on Google Books, including an article in Punch in 1845 that mentions "a man in a light cotton cravat and no shirt-collar, who looks very like a butler out of place." I see references to a figured cotton cravat, a yellow cotton cravat, and green cotton cravat, etc.

Silk cravats may have been all the rage, but there were cotton ones, and even linen, as in this description of a preacher from Wars of the Western Border (1856):

"Their minister was certainly a study, he had just such a face and air as a clever artist might have chosen to characterize the bell-wether of some hill-hiding Covenanter flock la short, it was stern, hard, and uncompromising. Nor was his garb less singular, for he sported (may we be forgiven for the phrase), a snuffy-brown coat, of strange and antiquated cut, which bore but too evident tokens of long and not over careful usage. The continuations were of yellowish-grey cloth, with stove-pipe legs, built like an Irishman's hurricane, 'straight up and down,' and encased below the knees in serviceable-looking buckskin riding-leathers, well stained with Missouri mud; add to these a pair of buffalo overshoes, a surprising shirt collar, and a wonderfully starched linen cravat, whose complicated folds and puritanical stiffness would have broken a 'New York washerwoman's heart at first sight,' and you will have a very accurate delineation of this reverend gentleman's outer man. We must not forget, however, a pair of wide-bowed horn spectacles which divided their time between the top of his venerable head, and the bridge of an independently cocked-up nose, thereby adding not a little to the grotesqueness of this somewhat unclerical tout ensemble."

But you know me. I wear my cotton cravat with a pair of blue spectacles. :)

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Cotton and linen are common for cravats, though you'll find far more references to pre-Civil War cotton and linen cravats. Cambric and lawn were popular for linen cravats, if you plan on using any cotton or linen make sure it's very lightweight, nothing generally heavier than handkerchief weight.

Cravat sizes will vary depending on the knot style. Some will require greater length than others.

Here are some pics showing how to basically fold an early style cravat. This was the common method for folding these before the Civil War, so keep that in mind. By the time of the Civil War cravats like these would have been less common and would have been seen largely on old timers. As with anything make sure you thoroughly research every part of your impression to make sure it's time period appropriate, as well as class, age, etc. A cravat style popular in 1850 may not necessarily be correct for 1860.

I apologize if the images aren't as clear as they could be, some of the folds may be a little hard to see. I didn't have the time to spend all day getting this perfect.

I started with a 45" square piece of very lightweight silk. The square was divided in half on the diagonal forming two triangles (each square will make two cravats). The edges were then hand felled creating what you see in the picture:


The cravat should then be soaked in heavy starch. When dry the material should be very stiff. You'll be using an iron to make the folds. I wanted my cravat to be 3" tall around my neck, the depth of the folds you make will depend on how tall you want your cravat to be. The top edge of the cravat was folded 6" for the first fold the bottom edge was folded 3":


Continue folding the top edge down 3":


Keep folding the top edge down 3" at a time:


Finally the the top will fold over the bottom fold:


Now iron the edges of the part of the cravat to be tied towards each other. This will make the ends easier to tie and form a neat knot. The part of the cravat that will go around your neck will remain 3" or however tall you decide to make it:


Now you're ready to tie your cravat, have fun.:)

[lukegilly13]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Ian,
Your information is VERY much appreciated! Thank you for your generosity in sharing this!

[61' reb]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Mr. McWherter, your information has proven very beneficial. Thank You for sharing your information!

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

I join others in thanking you for that, Mr. McWherter.

It's interesting to see what other information is out there, too. I found, for example, that if I extended my searches to "neck cloth" and "neck-tie" hundreds more references pop up in the 1840-1870 timeframe, with a variety of materials. I've attached one as especially amusing -- an 1861 paper neck-tie. This would probably work fine with a paper collar; I do wonder how it would stand up to a steel enamel one, though. :)

[OlszowyTM]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Mr McWherter has done an excellent job of documenting the topic & should be commended for it.

As was mentioned in an earlier post, we must be careful of what our modern perceptions are of an item. Here are 2 definitions from period dictionaries I own:

Webster's University Dictionary,the cover page is missing but the handwritten inspcription inside dates to August 13, 1864--

Cravat- A neckcloth for men

Dictionary of the English Language, imprint 1855, with a handwritten inscription, Chicago Sep/62--

Cravat--Anything worn about the neck.

As for measurements:

The Workwoman's Guide- dated 1838, pg 147,
"Cravats- They are generally made of fine muslin and are the shape of a half handkerchief, being cut from a square of eighteen nails."

For those who have invested in the Workwoman's Guide (if you haven't you should, because it contains a wealth of information on many topics of interest), you will find a measurement converter for some of the more archaic terms used like "nail" (2 1/4") on page 14.

pg 169-

"Many persons wear net or muslin handkerchiefs within their dress and under the collar or habit shirt and for those liable to be soon heated or who are engaged in warm or dusty employments, it is a particularly good plan to do so, especially if the dress is not of a good washing material, as it keeps the body clean and nice much longer than it otherwise could be."

The body referred to here is not your body but that of the garment.

pg 170-

"Muslin handkerchiefs may be purchased, woven for the purpose, with borders,...the fine ones are so costly that it is better to have squares of muslin cut ffom the piece; these like the bordered ones, may either be worn double, or the square cut in two, which most people prefer.. The muslin should be yard wide, not very coarse, nor yet very fine, if wanted for common wear, but a thin transparent muslin should be selected....The extreme points of the half square should be cut off, or turned up...."

Note the term handkerchief is being used to describe neckwear, so it could very well be used to describe what we would think of as a cravat in period writings and only the writer's context would help sort it out.

Other published sources include:
Civil War Gentlemen: 1860's Apparel and Uniforms, by RL Shep provides instructions for a brioche knitted necktie from an 1864 Peterson's Magazine & a pattern for a pretied cravat from an 1869 Harpers Bazaar.

The Art of Tying the Cravat, HE LeBlanc, 1829 that Mr McWherter has already cited is an excellent reference & I obtained my copy from Amazon Dry Goods probably 5 years ago. It contains the history and evolution of the cravat and gives multiple methods of tying one, which track very nicely with many of the pictures previously posted. It even gives illustrations of the tying methods for those who like picture books.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

The book is also available on Google Books:

The Art of Tying the Cravat

[DougCooper]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Here's a related image to the wonderful leather trim shop one posted in this thread and elsewhere. There were several images done of QM facilities in and around Washington roughly in the spring of 1865. Here's a group of QM workers apparently pulled away from what they were doing to have a group image made. Most are wearing neck clothes of some kind:




Here's the link to the LOC for the .tif file for this image:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?ils:74:./temp/~pp_TnEx::@@@mdb=fsaall,app,brum,detr,swann,look,gottscho,pan,horyd,genthe,var,cai,cd,hh,yan,lomax,ils,prok,brhc,nclc,matpc,iucpub,tgmi,lamb,hec

I just love to explore the details in these images.....

Best to all,

Todd

This is a great thread and I have learned much, as usual. A couple of questions:

1. The QM office photo looks for all the world like those men (civilians working for the military) may have been conciously adopting a rather uniform look, as often occured over the years in civilian govt workers. Perhaps the notion that one needed to treat the shirt as underwear was a bit more strong in this more formal military setting? Alternatively, since it appears to be early Spring, many of the vests and cravats may be temperature related.

2. I remember Pat McDermott, a brilliant reenactor from the 5th NH who was well tuned to the society and fashion of the 1850's and 60's, remarking that one thing we don't see enough of in the hobby were properly sized neckerchiefs - most sold today are much too small (we call them bandannas). Ian uses 45" on a side in the example here - that is a huge piece of fabric, nearly 4' on a side. I have seen original examples that were 36" but nothing smaller. Was there a standard size or did they come in all sizes?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

This is a great thread and I have learned much, as usual. A couple of questions:

1. The QM office photo looks for all the world like those men (civilians working for the military) may have been conciously adopting a rather uniform look, as often occured over the years in civilian govt workers. Perhaps the notion that one needed to treat the shirt as underwear was a bit more strong in this more formal military setting? Alternatively, since it appears to be early Spring, many of the vests and cravats may be temperature related.

2. I remember Pat McDermott, a brilliant reenactor from the 5th NH who was well tuned to the society and fashion of the 1850's and 60's, remarking that one thing we don't see enough of in the hobby were properly sized neckerchiefs - most sold today are much too small (we call them bandannas). Ian uses 45" on a side in the example here - that is a huge piece of fabric, nearly 4' on a side. I have seen original examples that were 36" but nothing smaller. Was there a standard size or did they come in all sizes?

The look of American civilian men in general during the mid-19th century is very uniform. European visitors traveling in America often remarked about Americans wearing the same black suit wherever they went, often referring to it as the "citizens uniform." Many different occupations have a certain uniform appearance law clerks, whalers, house painters, etc. could all be described as wearing a "uniform." After starting a new job you begin, whether consciously or unconsciously, to dress like everyone else at work. When I worked at a dairy for a couple years I noticed all the dairymen dressed the same, same jeans, same caps, jackets, rubber boots, etc. It was practical and made sense so we all dressed that way.

The idea that the shirt is "underwear" and should be treated as such is a concept that reenactors often blow out of proportion. It was preferred that a man always wear his coat, but certainly even polite society would agree that some tasks require the removal of that article. A man who lays bricks all day might remove his coat to work, but when he's on holiday with his family or attending church, etc. he's going to be expected to wear his coat. It's a self respect issue mostly. Likewise working men often appear in photographs in their shirt sleeves to show that they are working men. There are plenty of original photographs of men in their shirt sleeves, even while in the company of ladies, to indicate that this wasn't the "taboo" practice that many modern people think. The stereotypical image of a tailor, for instance, always shows him in his shirt sleeves.

One of these handkerchiefs worn as cravat that a friend of mine examined was cut from a square piece of cloth measuring 30 1/2" forming two triangles. It had a border of fine blue stripes intersecting a border of fine red stripes.

Other original cravats measure 36", a yard of fabric, while the Workwoman's Guide recommends 18 nails or 40 1/2". The size of the cravat will depend entirely on what style of cravat you're going to tie. Some Antebellum cravats from the 1840s require an enormous amount of fabric, like my cravat cut from a 45" square piece of silk, some require even more.

Check out these:


Some cravat and stock styles of the 1840s were meant to cover the entire shirt front, like this one:




But remember, these are 1840s style cravats! They are not appropriate for the 1860s! Cravat styles like these and the example of how to fold one I posted earlier were long out of fashion. Men preferred wearing thinner smaller cravats, just look at the government workshop photos that were taken during the war that have been posted, you'll see that they are all smaller thinner cravats. These were called "shoe-string" cravats when they started coming into fashion in the 1850s, by the 1860s they were the norm. They were generally 1/2" to 3/4" in width. Knot and bow styles relaxed quite a bit and became very simple and subtle.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

1. The QM office photo looks for all the world like those men (civilians working for the military) may have been conciously adopting a rather uniform look, as often occured over the years in civilian govt workers. Perhaps the notion that one needed to treat the shirt as underwear was a bit more strong in this more formal military setting? Alternatively, since it appears to be early Spring, many of the vests and cravats may be temperature related.

Other than the fact they are all wearing clothes, what do you find uniform about their appearance? I see all variations of presentation in that photo.

[kazrosiecki]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

The idea that the shirt is "underwear" and should be treated as such is a concept that reenactors often blow out of proportion.

I think back to this paragraph on pages 11-12 in Harvestfields of Death: The Twentieth Indiana Volunteers of Gettysburg by Craig L. Dunn about this concept...

However, the boys of Company K had other business to attend to before they could leave town. As they passed through the warehouse, the last company in their regiment to do so, they discovered that all of the available uniforms had been distributed. Before they could return to camp they marched through the streets of Indianapolis, in their long underwear, to a local tailor who quickly fitted them for new gray uniforms, the standard issue for militia and state troops. The greatly embarrassed men were heartened by the thunderous applause and resounding cheers with which they were greeted by the townsfolk of Indianapolis.

They may have been embarrassed but they did it. The original source is a letter from a soldier named Reed to his wife and is located in the Monticello Spectator, August 16, 1862, page 2.

[garyjd]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

This guy's cravat is worth a look. ~Gary

http://www.finedags.com/D09-89.htm

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Thanks for posting that image! I've been meaning to post an example of that very same knot style. This particular knot style requires a HUGE cravat!

This is strictly an ANTEBELLUM style though, you'll never see this knot style EVER in the 1860s. Most photographic examples of this style knot date to the late 1840s.

[OlszowyTM]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

With respect to the QM picture and the shirt sleeve vs coat issue, I would be wary of drawing any "fashion" rules from it. After all, it is a picture taken in a work setting, associated with a military purpose and a scenario populated strictly by males, where I suspect females were not expected to make their appearance. Guys being in an environment by themselves behave differently than in "polite" company ;). As with the picture of the Christian Commission in the haversack thread, this is a specific situation with a specific task and we should be cognizant of context. While these gentlemen would be seen wearing the same clothes to/from work, I believe many of the shirt sleeves would disappear enroute covered by a coat and topped off with appropriate headgear.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

With respect to the QM picture and the shirt sleeve vs coat issue, I would be wary of drawing any "fashion" rules from it. After all, it is a picture taken in a work setting, associated with a military purpose and a scenario populated strictly by males, where I suspect females were not expected to make their appearance. Guys being in an environment by themselves behave differently than in "polite" company ;). As with the picture of the Christian Commission in the haversack thread, this is a specific situation with a specific task and we should be cognizant of context. While these gentlemen would be seen wearing the same clothes to/from work, I believe many of the shirt sleeves would disappear enroute covered by a coat and topped off with appropriate headgear.

For all we know, these fellows were just coming back from a cockfight and stopped for the image to be struck. Maybe they had a fire drill and appropriately ran out without stopping to dress themselves. Perhaps it was the foreman's birthday and some of them had just given him a spanking.

Context is a funny thing.