Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

[Nathan Dodds]

I've been doing some research lately on tooth-care during the Civil War era and my research often entails purchasing relics for close study (often I make a copy from the relic for use also).

I was on Ebay looking for relic battlefield dug toothbrushes and I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CIVIL-WAR-SOLDIER-DENTAL-IVORY-TOOTHBRUSH-SET-C1861_W0QQitemZ220326010979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220326010979&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I don't claim to be an expert on this yet, but from what I've found I think this item is incorrectly represented (very inaccurately identified as Civil War era). I think it was made on a considerably later date--whoever won the action spent plenty of money on this particular toothbrush.

Anyway, I thought it would be fun and interesting (& educational authenticity wise) to see if any of you could observe some things about the toothbrush in this auction that look glaringly post Civil War.

What can you observe?

Nathan Dodds

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

This is Virginia's spouse posting.

Without knowing anything about the style of toothbrush, it clearly is post war because of the name inscribed in the handle bracketed by the words "Trade...Mark." There were no trademarks during the civil war. Those were a result of post-war legislation.

When I did a google search for the company, I did find mention of a 1922 patent Decoater travel toothbrush. This brush may have been a lot newer than was advertised. I'd also wonder about the tooth powder, whether it came from a company that existed during the war.

But remember that civil war sells, as evidenced by this sale.

Michael Mescher

[D.W. Scalf]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

I have to agree with Michael. Although a very nice antique,this item definitely appears to be misrepresented. As the old saying goes, "Let the buyer beware". If you want a "Civil War era toothbrush" bad enough to pay $195 for it, you'd better do your research. Did you notice that the seller has another similarly advertized item up for bid?

D.W. Scalf

[D.W. Scalf]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

To add to my last post.....The other item listed by this seller, advertised as "Civil War Era" officers toothbrush kit, includes a bottle with the inscription "J.R. Watkins Medical Company Winona Minn." Just a quick unofficial google search reveals that this company didn't begin sales till 1868. And that was just door to door linament sales. Somebody who knows more than I do may have info on the fancy toothbrush pictured. The bottle could have just been added to make the "kit". Maybe the seller, who appears to be a dealer, has done deeper research than I have, or they are not too particular about what they are selling.

D.W. Scalf

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

This is Michael again.

Gee, the internet is amazing.

If you google "j.r. watkins medical company" (the information on the side of the tooth powder bottle) you find one site that mentions "since 1868". So in less than two minutes you can cast doubt on his claim about the age of the items.

While that doesn't fix the age of the toothbrush, if the two came as a set, at best the seller does poor research. Yet he has a 100% rating!

Michael Mescher

[David Fox]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

Picky, picky, picky. Seller didn't say WHICH civil war the item harkened to, did he?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Picky, picky, picky. Seller didn't say WHICH civil war the item harkened to, did he?
__________________
David Fox

Hi,

That is true.:D:wink_smil:sarcastic

[JimKindred]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

First clue to avoid an Ebay seller - Winning bidder: User ID kept private Any seller that uses the private option offered by Ebay usually has something to hide.

[Kanawha Riflemen]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

I would have say that a bad deal has gone down and the guy who won this bid, did not do any research. Research is always the key. The example in the book and the seller's example may look the same, but they are different. The National Museum of Civil War Medicine in Frederick, Maryland has some fine exhibits of Dental items on display. A few years ago, I had the chance to work for them. The book the seller shows is part of a three volume set by Dr. Gordon Dammann. Good books to have if your interested in Civil War Medicine in general.

John A. Miller
_____________________
"It seemed as if the infringement were an immense tank. The contents of which were spilled all at once, such a drenching we had! Even heavy gum coats and horsehide boots were hardly proof against it." Captain Henry Kidd, The battle of Monterey Pass, July 4-5, 1863.

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

To add to my last post.....The other item listed by this seller, advertised as "Civil War Era" officers toothbrush kit, includes a bottle with the inscription "J.R. Watkins Medical Company Winona Minn." Just a quick unofficial google search reveals that this company didn't begin sales till 1868. And that was just door to door linament sales. Somebody who knows more than I do may have info on the fancy toothbrush pictured. The bottle could have just been added to make the "kit". Maybe the seller, who appears to be a dealer, has done deeper research than I have, or they are not too particular about what they are selling.

D.W. Scalf

Notice that the company that made the tooth-powder container moved to Winona Minn. by 1885, http://www.jrwatkins.com/jrwatkins/c...m?Country=Usa&
and the glass toothpowder container sold by this seller says "J.R. Watkins medical company winona, minn. u.s.a." Also, companies were not required to tell country of manufacture until the 1890's, possibly putting the tooth powder glass at a very much later date .

[DougCooper]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

I can't get on to Ebay right now but if someone could at least let the buyer know he is now the proud owner of a 20th century toothbrush at a Civil War price, he will at least have learned something. Give him the link to the thread. Also, it might corral the seller from doing it again.

Seller must be an attorney - how else to explain using "Ivory Dental Hygiene Kit" for "toothbrush." Maybe he figures the Army issued it or something :D

[MickCole]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

This auction proves yet again the truth of the old saying that there's a sucker born every minute. More relevant to this forum, it also shows yet again the importance of doing research regarding all aspects of one's impression.
Mick Cole
37th VA Co. E

[Spinster]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

I can't get on to Ebay right now but if someone could at least let the buyer know he is now the proud owner of a 20th century toothbrush at a Civil War price, he will at least have learned something. Give him the link to the thread. Also, it might corral the seller from doing it again.

Not hardly Doug--that is why the feature 'user id kept private' is on the sale--to keep 'helpful' souls from sending such messages. The seller knows full and well what he's doing.

My first clue on this item--well, I'm not quick on trademarks and such--but I'm figuring that little hole on the end of the handle was not a normal feature in 1860something, as today it contains the little rubber tip used to pick one's teeth.

[unionprivate]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

Although this is turning into an ebay conversation, I apologize in advance for, I must say that ebay has gone to a system where they replace your actual id with some made up numbers and letters. Thier intention is to keep all bidders private so that they cannot be harassed, etc during the bidding process. OK back to civil war talk... :tounge_sm

[DougCooper]

Re: Do you think this Ebay auction was accurately represented?

[QUOTE=Spinster;129252]Not hardly Doug--that is why the feature 'user id kept private' is on the sale--to keep 'helpful' souls from sending such messages. The seller knows full and well what he's doing.

QUOTE]


Was hoping we could get to the buyer, since we could not get to the seller, but alas if they are scambling the bidders, tis not possible. Oh the horror!