sheer sleeves over dress

[Drygoods]

http://cgi.ebay.com/CIVIL-WAR-CDV-SILK-OFF-SHOULDER-EVENING-DRESS-FASHION_W0QQitemZ140294357285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Photo_Images?hash=item140294357285&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1209%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

I've posted this CDV because I'm rather interested to know what others think of it. I've seen quite a few chantilly lace, and for lack of a better description, I'll just say "lace jacket", but I have never seen one quite like this. It looks like a sheer sleeves and very short cut bodice trimmed with ruched ribbon. I'd like to know more, if anyone can shed more information from the image. I've never seen a sheer cover with sleeves, and cut as short at the waist as this one. any thoughts?

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

This is a sheer overbodice worn over a low-necked short-sleeved evening dress. It 's a flattering accessory and was favored by mature women. You can find them in photographs and in period publications, and there are extant examples in museums and private collections.

Most overbodices have a round neckline (at the base of the throat); the v-neckline shown in this image is a variation that appears occasionally. They have long full sleeves which could be gathered into a band or cuff or open at the lower edge. They body is gathered into a band at the waist. The waist is usually straight, although I have one image that has a point at the center front.

Fabrics are very fine, very sheer, and should have some body: net - plain, dotted, point d'esprit, embroidered, flocked; silk organdy or organza - plain weave, occasionally tone-on-tone geometric patterns (check, striped, plaid); cotton organdy - very, very fine, plain or tone-on-tone as above; Swiss dot - very fine embroidered dots (not thermoplastic); cotton mull; very fine cotton lawn. Colors were white, ivory and black.

The original examples I've seen have had monochromatic trimmings. Ruching made from ribbon or strips of silk taffeta was very popular. Some extant examples are embellished with tucks on the front of the overbodice; some also have tucks on the sleeves. Some originals have a narrow lace edging around the neck and cuffs; one I observed used both black and white lace on a black net overbodice. Front closures are tiny hooks and hand-sewn eyelets or hooks and thread loops.

I taught a class on sheer overbodices last October. They are not difficult to construct and are a nice addition to a period wardrobe.

[Drygoods]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

Thank you Mrs. Schmitt, I thought it could be an overbodice, meaning I thought it could be sewn to the original bodice which would explain why it doesn't travel below the waistline. At any rate, I thought it rather an odd choice to cover this particular dress. IMHO, it just doesn't work with the style, or perhaps it is her figure. I think what gets me the most is that the heavy rows of ruching over the bust make her look larger, and the cuffs are too chunky and heavy for this fine lace. A delicate bullion lace would have been more attractive, well that's what I thought anyway. And the whole look might have been improved if she hadn't done the puffed short sleeve underneath. I get the opinion that the lace was done as an afterthought?

As sheer dresses or accessories go, I think that this is the worst exampled style that I have ever seen.:tounge_sm

[Becky Morgan]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

What Not To Wear, Civil War edition :D Not everyone back then had great taste in clothes, either! (It is an interesting overblouse, though.)

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

Just to clarify. A sheer overbodice is a completely separate accessory; it's not attached to the dress beneath. They are invariably worn over a short-sleeved evening dress. The short puffed sleeve is part of the dress; and an sheer overbodice wouldn't be worn over long sleeves.

A sheer overbodice is worn to change the look of the dress, i.e. wear it with the overbodice for dinner, remove it for dancing afterward. It's also a way for mature women to cover up areas of the body that aren't as youthful as they used to be.

The ribbon used for the ruching on this particular bodice is wider than I've found on extant garments to date. The wider ribbon and the flatness of the ruching are not particularly complimentary for this garment; a narrower ruching with more relief would have been a better selection for the spotted net used for the overbodice. The overbodice itself is very nice; it's just not a great choice of trimming.

[Drygoods]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

Mrs. Schmitt,
Your definition of an overbodice does help. I think that each of us might have used the same term yet had two different ideas in our minds. Yes, I agree that an overbodice lace is a seperate accessory, yet it is meant to compliment the style of the dress. I've seen a few chantilly lace pieces and some made as short jackets, certainly with the intention of being worn over light or sheer clothing.
I think what triggered my initial surprise with this particular photograph was that it fits so poorly, as my children would say, it's 'epic failure' as historic dress. Notice that it is difficult to see exactly where the botton of the lace coverlet finishes at the waist, and for that matter, notice how the silk underneath sort of hangs in rolls. My first thought was that the lace finished at the waist with some sort of belt, or perhaps was sewn along with the bodice, although not likely. The lady is obviously corseted, so why do I see the rolls of silk underneath, and the the lace vanishing a the waist? Maybe I just don't see it correctly. Perhaps this dress was made for someone taller, and was only borrowed for the photograph? I don't know, but I do appreciate you taking the time to comment and send your instructive information. Thank you.:D
Yes, as was pointed out in a previous post, not all period clothes look terrific...just a few glances at some period hairstyles can make one shout 'what were they thinking?!'

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

I don't see a problem with a fit of the sheer overbodice. Overbodices are not jackets; they are not loose at the lower edge. Their cut is similar to a Garibaldi shirt: a loosely-fitted body, center front opening, no darts or shaping at the side seams, gathered into a waistband at the lower edge, long full sleeves. The sleeves on this one would be more flattering if the bands at the wrists fit snugly rather than loosely, but the fit elsewhere is fine.

As mentioned previously, the bottom of an overbodice is gathered into a waistband. Depending on the fabric, the waistband is usually lined or stiffened with a sturdier fabric, e.g. glazed cotton, silk organza, etc. The overbodice in this image is made from spotted net (not lace); it would definitely need some stabilization at the waistline. Can you see the darker solid line that looks like a belt around her waist? That's the waistband of the overbodice. It does look like the center front of the waistband is pulled up slightly, showing a bit of the bottom of the bodice. I think that's a result of movement - perhaps posing for the photo - than a poorly fitting overbodice.

You can see some drag lines in the bodice of the dress underneath. There could be any number of reasons why the dress isn't fitting as well as it could: recent weight gain or loss; different corset; same corset laced differently; body position during the photograph.

Since this is a 'historic dress', I don't think we can call it 'an epic failure', no matter how much it may offend modern sensibilities. :)

Regards,

[Drygoods]

Re: sheer sleeves over dress

I don't see a problem with a fit of the sheer overbodice. ,

Yes, but I noticed the poor fit of the dress itself, the odd folds of the silk bodice, and how it just doesn't fit as well as it could. I did know that it is actually net, although I called it lace, that was simply to make my description a bit easier, but that was my 'epic failure'. ;)

And yes, and not to sound argumentative, although it was a period dress, sometimes not all of them are good ones. I've seen a few in my day that were not made as well as could/should have done. Not everyone was good with the needle, and not every dress was worn by the person it was first made to fit. And I'd certainly say that many here know this fact. Let's face it, some original dresses are pooches, however for an older woman, she does look well with her hair, and jewelry, and fashion sense. I wonder since the image is from Texas, her reason for the star on the watch chain? It did sell for over $27, so it must have appealed to many others. I rather wish that we saw more of this style on older women at events, at least here in the West, I've not had that opportunity yet.