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  • #31
    Re: If I may ...

    Everett,

    I'll drop you a note in a week or two, current time restraints prevent from typing too much on here. Here's some real quick stuff, I don't have time to cite properly but your findings will be similar to what I've written below and it is pretty basic stuff. This should give you a start.

    Most homes with a few rooms to them would feature formal and informal areas. Informal would be generally to the rear of the house and incorporate a kitchen, sitting room/back parlor, bedrooms, and etc. Formal rooms would typically be in the front of the house and would consist of a parlor, dining room, and in some middle class to upper class homes a guest bedroom. Guests were generally kept in the formal areas while visiting and when they were without guests, the family resided in the informal areas to the rear of the home...usually using the dining room for meals and placing the parlor off limits to kids and such.

    Middle Class parlors typically would have had wall to wall seamed carpeting (ingrain and etc.), fancy parlor furniture consisting of chairs, a couch, tables, rich decorations, and usually a fireplace. The sitting room would have more out of date furniture, maybe a rag wool rug, and be generally more comfortable...think a modern day family room. Kitchens would have small cast iron stoves generally for cooking, sometimes a splatter painted wood floor to hide dirt, and the walls and/or woodwork were typically a blue color of some sort or if there were servants a more industrial color like "institution green or gray." A large kitchen table served as a work surface generally.

    Woodwork in formal areas was typically grained to appear like walnut or other fancy woods in middle class homes. Informal area woodwork were generally just painted. Woodwork was mostly just moldings that went around the door frame...often times different from the later Victorian stuff we are used to seeing in old homes or modern restoration catalogs.

    There's a ton out there on furniture resources. Check around antique dealer sources and such...lots of material.

    There seems to be fair bit of variationto interiors in smaller homes. Some features include plain woodwork, limited formal areas if any at all, shared bedrooms, and etc.

    Cooking on a hearth in bake kettles (dutch ovens) would have been pretty outdated, still done in the middle part of the nineteenth century with some poorer folks but most people would have had stoves of some sort in the kitchen. They would not have been the big monsters of the late nineteenth century/early twentieth century with warming shelves and etc. These were typically smaller.

    More later, hope this gets you started.

    Darrek Orwig
    Last edited by Citizen_Soldier; 04-21-2009, 09:35 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: If I may ...

      Originally posted by Citizen_Soldier View Post
      Cooking on a hearth in bake kettles (dutch ovens) would have been pretty outdated, still done in the middle part of the nineteenth century with some poorer folks but most people would have had stoves of some sort in the kitchen.
      Hi Darrek,

      It's been my understanding that the stoves were not as common in the South till post war. One source Jottings of a Year's Sojourn in the South by Anson De Puy Van Buren. 1859 stated:

      Our ladies--pretty parlor annuals--lovely exotics, mewed up half of the year in air-tight rooms, heated by air-tight stoves--no wonder they die of the consumption. Did not our ancestors live longer and enjoy life better ere the stove was in use?

      [In the south] ...human progress has actually failed in introducing the stove. They use none in this clime, not even in cooking. The old iron crane, fastened to the jambs, still swings to and fro over the fire, tricked off with its "big and little pot-hooks and links of chain," and the venerable old "bake-kettle" sits in the corner, "Just as they used
      to do--some fifty years ago."
      Of course that's a little extreme, there were stoves in the South, but they just weren't as prevelant. Another source from Appleton's Journal Nov. 20, 1875, stated:

      The subjoined, from the London Daily News, on the first fire of the season, is very good, but we wish the writer would understand that not every American is devoted to the stove. In the South the open fire is the rule, and it is far from being uncommon in the North and West..."
      And a secondary source I found "The Reconstruction of White Southern Womanhood." by Jane Turner p. 79 in Google Books, states:

      The major technological change in the kitchen was the advent of the cast-iron stove. A fixture in northern kitchens for over two decades, the stove appeared in many southern kitchens only after the Civil War, when it displaced the huge fireplaces that had earlier cooked the food. Jennie Friend Stephenson recalled that her mother had attempted to introduce the stove into the kitchen before the war, but 'it was the cause of much disgruntlement' because the cook, Aunt Betty, objected. Aunt Betty cooked in a huge old-fashioned fireplace and baked in 'ovens with close fitting lids' that were 'set at the corners of the big, wide hearth.'...
      Hope this helps some. I'm heading for Columbus for a two days and I'm on my way out the door in about 3 minutes.

      Linda.
      Last edited by LindaTrent; 04-22-2009, 09:48 AM. Reason: fix quote
      Linda Trent
      [email]linda_trent@att.net[/email]

      “It ain’t what you know that gets you into trouble.
      It’s what you know that just ain’t so.” Mark Twain.

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      • #33
        Re: If I may ...

        Linda,

        One of the best examples of a middle class home I can think of is the Carter House in Franklin. It has a detached brick kitchen with a large hearth. I can't recall seeing any evidence of a stove pipe being run out the wall anywhere.

        The layout of the house is two main rooms downstairs, a parlor for visitors on one side and a "family room" on the other side, seperated by the entry hall and staircase in the middle. Upstairs are bedrooms for the girls. Additional rooms (a bedroom and dining room) were built off the back of the house later, giving the house an L shape. Those rooms were only accessible from the back porch. The house has a basement with three distinct rooms. The first room was used as a family room in the summer since it was cooler than the main house. The basement is only accessible from the back porch, as well. The back porch itself is huge and probably was used quite a bit. All the floors throughout the house have the same wide poplar boards, except the basement, which is bricked and rather uneven in places.
        Joe Smotherman

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        • #34
          Re: If I may ...

          Linda,

          Great stuff! I wonder if hearths were more prevalent in some of the southern states due to so much warm air rising upwards out of the chimney in a hearth instead of radiating into the room as what happens with a stove. Even in a summer kitchen, temps could become pretty warm for someone cooking or heating water for laundry.

          On another note, to maybe clarify for some readers of this thread. Often times historic structures were modified over the years and house museums featuring a restored residence may have been backdated to an earlier time period or at the whim of the owner because something is "cool." An example would be bare wood floors in rooms that would have once been carpeted, modernized fireplaces that were opened back up, paint schemes, wall paper choices, room utilization that differs from original configuration, and etc. Just as there are "farbs" among Civil War living history folks, there are old house restoration "farbs" too. :) Don't even get me started on some of the crazy fantasy paint schemes used by the "Painted Lady" crowd. :)

          Darrek Orwig

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          • #35
            Re: If I may ...

            I'm re-re-reading "With Blood and Fire, Life behind Union Lines in Middle Tennessee, 1863-65", by Michael Bradley. I came across a description that I think bears inclusion to this thread.

            Middle Tennessee and the Cumberland Plateau and Highland Ridge areas were occupied by both armies during the time described. Union Gen. Alpheus Williams, a Yale man, born in Connecticut, traveled Europe for 3 years in the 1830's and then moved to "boomtown" Detroit, Michigan, where he became postmaster, and had previously distinguished himself defending the Union right flank at Gettysburg, was in command of a division of Slocum's Corps when he was made commander of Military Sub-District #1. He established his headquarters eventually in Tullahoma, Tn.

            Williams describes Tullahoma as:
            "... consisting of about one hundred straggling houses of faded paint and retrograde look. Judge Catron of the Supreme Court has a neat summer cottage in the suburbs, but it is badly soiled by the occupation of soldiers. The town is dolorous ... thin, slabby and shabby houses scattered about, with broken windows and a deserted air. The people are like the houses, poor white trash. The Negro is the only gay dog, keeping up dances every night and having a good time at a cheap rate ... The are disgusting: The mere scum of humanity, poor, half-starved, ignorant, stupid, and treacherous. The women all dip snuff. You must stay here and move through the country to see how many there are vastly inferior to the Negro in common sense, shrewdness, and observation, and in the comforts of life. Let us not grieve for the Southern Negro as much as for the poor Southern White Man - covered with vermin and rags, and disgusting with the evidence of a cureless 'Scotch fiddle' [scabies] which they dig at continously."

            Tullahoma was the county seat of Coffee County and boasted a newspaper and several churches. It wasn't a big town, but it wasn't a backwater, either.

            It sounds like, with a few noted exceptions, that the houses were not well-appointed or kept up. Williams was accustomed to the homes of Europe and the north and clearly finds the southern homes inferior. Linda's reference talks about southern kitchens still using open hearths for cooking until the war was over. It seems to me that the southern homes that we would be portraying at the average event (since most of the War occurred in southern states, right?) would be more of the "poor white trash" variety rather than the well-appointed middle class homes.

            Linda, I would offer that the stoves did not take hold in the south until after the war because, as in your example, the homes that could afford the stove had servants preparing meals and they resisted such innovations. Post-war, no more servants and the lady of the house is looking for any contraption that could make her life easier and the stove looked pretty good. But that is just a guess on my part. What do I know of southern life?

            Awaiting the patronizing post of contradicting views that I am well aware is coming ...
            Joe Smotherman

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            • #36
              Re: If I may ...

              Joe,

              In working with primary sources, historians analysis the context before making conclusions. A conquering Army marching into enemy territory is going to have a set of biases that affect thier perceptions, whether it be Roman soldiers in Germania or Wisconsin farm boys in Georgia.

              Joe Smotherman wrote:
              It seems to me that the southern homes that we would be portraying at the average event (since most of the War occurred in southern states, right?) would be more of the "poor white trash" variety rather than the well-appointed middle class homes.

              Obviously, using a biased account of one community in the south to make the generalization that much of the south was "poor white trash" is pretty ridiculous.

              Yes, much of my research regarding architecture and nineteenth century home furnishings focuses on the midwest, however a large number of the population in this region had emmigrated from southern states like Kentucky and Virginia in the decade prior to The Rebellion.

              Joe, I'm not trying to attack you in my posts and I could really care less about argueing with you. The only reason I'm continueing to contribute to this thread is because there are so many misconceptions out there of what civilian life was like before and during The Rebellion. It is very frustrating that so many adopt the "it's civilian so anything goes mentality" or group everything civilian together from the late eighteenth century through 1865.

              Joe, I encourage you to continue your research. You may want to try checking with local colleges/universities for theses on the subject, contacting historic preseration specialists, and speaking with open air museums or house museums to compare your findings with. I would also recommend maybe dropping the attitude a bit.

              Darrek Orwig
              Last edited by Citizen_Soldier; 04-24-2009, 09:04 AM.

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              • #37
                Re: If I may ...

                And I wasn't disappointed one bit.
                Joe Smotherman

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                • #38
                  What you might find in the wild west! Some different ideas

                  Good Day All,

                  I'm sorry to come to this discussion a bit late, but I have a few other bits to toss into the pot. As for portable houses, they did exist, and far earlier than the CW era. Catalogue buildings were shipped around the horn and could be made in wood or sheet iron, and some were imported from other countries.

                  Two of the sheet iron buildings that I know of exist today, one is located at the waterfront of Eureka, CA and has been made part of the Maritime Museum and dates to the 1850s, and the second one that I've seen is in Bodie CA SHP (but remember that Bodie was built/settled in the 1860-70s). Someplace in the mess that I call home, my husband has original copies of catalogue houses that were sold in the early 1850s. I'm not sure just where they are, and someday I'll find them, but not at the moment. I'll post those later, but be advised, the houses are rather decorative, although small, and were intended to be used for folks settling as a temporary measure, or for those who traveled from claim to claim. Do they still exist, yes if you tour the back areas of the gold country, you might still spot them as old shacks, once grand.

                  One of a few such imported houses, that my husband and I photographed was from the wreck of the Frolic, which sank roughly two hours south of our home. Here is a brief description published in Sea Letter Magazine, 1997. "Pounded by 147 years of Mendocino surf, it is amazing how much of the Frolic has survived. The ship settled among, tall, spire-like rocks which trapped and preserved detailed and fragile items such as gold filigree jewelry and minutely carved ivory fans and umbrella handles -- even silver scallop-shell tinder box designed to hand on a necklace.
                  But there is a new development concerning the packaged house on Frolic's cargo list which should prove an extraordinary addition to the upcoming exhibit. Waiting empty for the Frolic in SF was another Chinese manufactured and prefabricated house, complete with doors and oyster shell windows. Every board, column, and beam was labeled and numbered to air in reassembly. The plan was to store the ships, cargo inside (saving exorbitant warehouse fees), then auction the cargo, and afterwards sell the house itself.
                  The exhibit planning team at San Francisco Maritime has records showing how many cases of champagne and crackers were served at a previous auction of this type, how many boards were rented for display of cargo, and even proof that two Chines lanterns were on hand. It seemed nearly possible to recreate the auction and house that were on the SF waterfront in 1850! but there was one major element missing. Though the Frolic also carried just such a house and her bill of lading listed the materials in some detail, we had no idea what the house looked like.
                  A call to Dr. Layton provided a lead on a house in CA thought to be of Chines origin. Erected in 1850 near Valley Springs in the Sierra foothills at the 1000' elevation, it had once been a courthouse before being moved to its current location in 1950. Our exhibit intern Danny Darr investigated the house on three separate visits. We decided to return with Dr. Layton and take more measurements and photographs. On this visit we confirmed that the house was manufactured and prefabricated in China: at the top of the main support beam, barely visible through the original red paint, Darr discovered a black number 16 alongside bold Chines script. the roof rafters joined to it were numbered identically to guide assembly.
                  Jesse Fremont, wife of the explorer John Fremont, stayed in just such a house. Upon her arrival in SF in 1849 she wrote: "It was put up without nails, except the shingling on the roof, all the rest fitting in together like a puzzle, and was of pretty smooth wood, making a very good temporary lodging.....Our little house had but two rooms, but they were large and clean." Another eyewitness, upon seeing an auction of Chines cargo on the waterfront, observed: "the richest and most valuable cargo of Chines goods ever brought to this market. the house in which they were displayed appeared like a magnificent bazaar, so rich and gorgeous was the scene"


                  Well, the article and photographs of the house are interesting, although the thing did have a bit too much glam added to it IMHO. At any rate, we have seen personally, much of the parts of the buildings, and items brought off the ship, and indeed now many years later, feel that there was enough to not only build this building, but a few other places as well. And don't get the idea that this place is large, it isn't and was much like Mrs. Fremont's description, likely two rooms with a large porch out the front. Could these houses have traveled far? Sure, why not. They were well labeled, rather easy to transport once taken down, and have been found up and down the western coastal area, and likely could have been dropped off anywhere from New York harbor to Seattle.

                  Can you build one yourself? Yes, having a portable house isn't that difficult. all you need is a floor that bolts together, and walls that can be tilted up, along with a canvas roof. However, that works for early western settlements and the CA gold rush, whether these things were still being made and transported during the CW era is anybody's guess. It might have happened, after all portable folding furniture was still a booming business during the war, maybe portable houses too. Now don't nag me about my being from the West and not being on an actual battlefield with a portable house, I only wrote this to provide the thought of an idea that many things of our creative ancestors still exist, and that there is so much of history we are yet to explore.:wink_smil
                  Mfr,
                  Judith Peebles.
                  No Wooden Nutmegs Sold Here.
                  [B]Books![B][/B][/B] The Original Search Engine.

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                  • #39
                    Re: If I may ...

                    Just a few image links of antebellum homes in Wayne County, Tennessee:

                    http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tn...ortonhouse.htm

                    http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tn...SSims_Home.htm

                    http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tn...oric/spain.htm

                    http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tn...airskinner.htm
                    Joe Smotherman

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                    • #40
                      Re: If I may ...

                      If you are in the market ...

                      http://horsefeatherstradeco.com/About_the_Trainer.html
                      Joe Smotherman

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                      • #41
                        Re: If I may ...

                        Looking at the image linked in the original post, the interiors reflect a spartan decor and wood floors ...

                        http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...ebel-women.htm
                        Joe Smotherman

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                        • #42
                          Re: If I may ...

                          Hallo!

                          Moderator hat on...

                          Please keep postings addressed to the discussion, and not to individual posters.
                          Take the latter off-board to the PM, if it cannot be let go.

                          Thanks.

                          Curt
                          Curt Schmidt
                          In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                          -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                          -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                          -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                          -Vastly Ignorant
                          -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

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                          • #43
                            Re: What you might find in the wild west! Some different ideas

                            Originally posted by Drygoods View Post
                            Can you build one yourself? Yes, having a portable house isn't that difficult. all you need is a floor that bolts together, and walls that can be tilted up, along with a canvas roof.
                            Absolutely true. I don't think that anyone is arguing that portable homes are hard to build, or even hard to build using only 1860s technology.

                            The question is, though, do they resemble the homes found in the historic circumstances that any particular reenactor usually reenacts? That will vary from person to person and first require research into what existed in what context, and obviously the situation on the west coast is different than the east. If period portable houses don't resemble what was common where a reenactor usually goes, then the question is, what is the premise of the reenactment: anything is acceptable as long as it existed somewhere before 1860? Or to recreate what was typical in a particular time and place?

                            I can see two different arguments for what's more accurate: a house that's meant to resemble a typical house, even though it uses anachronistic techniques and is more like a stage set (such as a "log house" built of slabs and foam to make it lighter and more durable and portable than solid logs and mud daubing), or a house that uses only 1860s technology, but is out of context for its time and place. But either way, the first step is to understand what fits in what historic context.

                            Hank Trent
                            hanktrent@voyager.net
                            Hank Trent

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                            • #44
                              Re: What you might find in the wild west! Some different ideas

                              Originally posted by Hank Trent View Post
                              The question is, though, do they resemble the homes found in the historic circumstances that any particular reenactor usually reenacts? That will vary from person to person and first require research into what existed in what context, and obviously the situation on the west coast is different than the east.
                              Yes, context. The time and location of the events being portrayed will drive the participant's impression and the tools at hand to improve that impression. This has been a discussion point on the military side recently.

                              Originally posted by Hank Trent View Post
                              I can see two different arguments for what's more accurate: a house that's meant to resemble a typical house, even though it uses anachronistic techniques and is more like a stage set (such as a "log house" built of slabs and foam to make it lighter and more durable and portable than solid logs and mud daubing), or a house that uses only 1860s technology, but is out of context for its time and place. But either way, the first step is to understand what fits in what historic context.
                              If we agree that the word "portable" is strictly about the modern convenience of being able to convey the structure to multiple event sites and not a part of the historic nature of the structure, i.e., a gold rush shack, then we accept that certain compromises are made in construction to effect dismantling, transport and reassembly.

                              So, that leaves us trying to make something that "LOOKS" like a typical 1860's dwelling at X time and X location. And so far, the failure of current efforts is the canvas roof, the dirt floor, and the lack of both foundation piers, and a floor inside. Oh, and a working fireplace. Whether for cooking or not, I doubt any home did not have a working fireplace.

                              And then the question remains as to how the authentic civilian community would accept such a thing. Are they going to appreciate the effort or shake their heads at the farb?

                              In the meantime, I'm still looking for images of pre-Civil War houses from the south. I've found several sites that explain how to build both log and frame houses and I've gotten some good ideas of what could be done.

                              At TAG, we built the outhouse on skids so we could pull it around the property as needed. I'm wondering if a non-collapsing structure built on skids and hauled on a trailer in one piece would be the way to go. If you kept it light enough, I think a winch could load it back on the trailer for you.
                              Joe Smotherman

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                              • #45
                                Re: If I may ...

                                If I may,
                                I wonder what prevelence of cedar shake roofing would be. I have froed many a shake and I find this to a light weight solution to the issue of roofing. Not that this would be an acceptiple lodging but with so much information being posted on construction I was curious.
                                Chris Fisher
                                [COLOR="Blue"][I]GGGS Pvt Lewis Davenport
                                1st NY Mounted Rifles
                                Enlisted Jan 1864 Discharged Nov 1865[/I][/COLOR]
                                [I][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Member Co[COLOR="DarkGreen"][/COLOR]mpany of Military Historians[/COLOR][/I]

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