If I may ...

[LindaTrent]

Re: If I may ...

If I may, I wonder what prevelence of cedar shake roofing would be. I have froed many a shake and I find this to a light weight solution to the issue of roofing. Not that this would be an acceptiple lodging but with so much information being posted on construction I was curious.

Yeah, wooden roofs would have been one of the most prevalent. Whether the shingles were sawn or split would depend upon various factors. What they were made out of would depend upon what woods were available in one's area or what shingles were being sold there. Most shingles available in the 20th and 21st century are western red cedar which we've been hard pressed to document east of the Mississippi in the period. Don't get fooled by the term red cedar in the east as it most generally refers to "Juniperus Virginiana" rather than the "Thuja plicata."

Some examples of woods I've seen mentioned in primary sources that were most commonly used include the eastern white cedar, oak, white pine, the pond cypress, and probably others according to length of time one wanted the roof to last, and just what was readily available. One would just have to research for their own specific area.

For small poor houses the most typical roofs were shingle or board (and batten). While split shingles were not unheard of, most more established areas had sawn shingles available.

Some items being sold at our local store here in Gallipolis, Ohio include the following (and I'm only including building supplies): Building Supplies:

Sash, glass, nails, laths, shingles, white lead, Xenia Lime; Louisville Lime; Linseed Oil; Plaster Paris; Hydraulic Cement. Doors, sashes and blinds made to order.
Nails: 150 kegs best quality nails of Wheeling manufacture comprising all sizes of:
Barrel Nails; casing nails; fencing nails; lathing nails; flooring brads; finishing nails; wrought clinch nails; cut and wrought spikes.

Another store in Gallipolis carried:

Glass 25 boxes 8 x 10 glass, city brand; 20 boxes 10 x 12 glass, city brand; 15 boxes 10 x 14 glass, city brand; 10 boxes 10 x 16 glass, city brand
Axes, &c. Lippencott's double refined, double steel chopping axes; Hunt's celebrated Eastern Chopping Axes; Broad Axes, Hand Axes, Hatchets, Spoke Shaves, &c

When we built the Bradford Place we went with eastern white cedar sawn shingles for the log house, wash-house and privy. The old log cabin has a split shingle weight pole roof, the timber-framed barn has a board roof, and the cellar has a clapboard roof. So we have had some experience with various forms of roofing.

Linda.

[Drygoods]

Re: If I may ... take a few liberties with the discussion

Moderators, I understand your comments about keeping this thread within the scope of the discussion, however I have a few thoughts that I'd like to ask, and the reply wanted is from all parts of the country, so I beg your pardon for my wondering ideas. I know that we should be discouraged from discussing personal events away from this discussion, however, I must say that building period structures must depend entirely upon the venue which is wanted. For instance, the dog trot style house that I loved in Texas is a rather rare thing here in California, consequently although period it doesn't quite fit our location venues. I think what you have to do is work from period photographs or sketches from the area you participate.

As a side note, the lower sketch of the rebel women house is exactly what I have being built today. I'll be moving into it in one month, and the whole place is only 12x12 with wood floor, and walls that are done in panels all hand pegged and square nails. The shingles are being finished today, and each one hand hatchet cut (not sawn). My greatest worry isn't the construction, I know the fellow building it does everything accurate, otherwise he knows that I won't use it, my worry is how period furniture fits into the house. And in there is a whole 'nother conversation, do you build to have everything resemble the exact size of a structure, or do you make it adapt to the furnishing and family using that space? Mine is a 1852 boarding house, kinda cozy ain't it!:wink_smil

On the other hand, another thing that I've seen although not mentioned here are those sort of caravan cottages, something like what you'd see at the period seaside resort. I've seen a few of them out here in the western events, they are a sort of trailer house, quite small, that has a bed, table, chairs, and front stoop. I don't know exactly how common these things are, but were designed from period photographs and quite ornamental. I suppose you could say that they are the size of a traveling daguerreotype studio wagon. Are they only a western thing? I think that they sell from $6,000-$16,000. Certainly not your refugee impression household, but then remember not everyone wants to portray a refugee every event. Again, not exactly part of this thread, however I have no way of knowing if these sorts of things show up at your public or private events, which is why I asked.

Last, I'd again repeat that portable housing did exist, was made at the time, however must make the point that unless you can prove they existed in your location, and were used, it's the documentation that makes the whole process acceptable.

[Hank Trent]

Re: If I may ... take a few liberties with the discussion

As a side note, the lower sketch of the rebel women house is exactly what I have being built today. I'll be moving into it in one month, and the whole place is only 12x12 with wood floor, and walls that are done in panels all hand pegged and square nails. The shingles are being finished today, and each one hand hatchet cut (not sawn).

Which sketch do you mean? Or what do you mean by "exactly"?

Are you talking about the one in Joe's original post from Harper's, showing the exterior of the log cabin, in the center bottom sketch? We've discussed that quite a bit on this thread, and I think it would be one of the hardest kinds to both re-create exactly and make portable. If that's it, I'm curious how you're handling things like the daubing between the logs and the cat-and-clay chimney.

Those cabins weren't usually square, and the one in the picture doesn't look square, but aside from that, the exterior walls of it certainly aren't in panels hand-pegged--do you mean you're partitioning it into rooms?

Or are you referring to another sketch?

On the other hand, another thing that I've seen although not mentioned here are those sort of caravan cottages, something like what you'd see at the period seaside resort.

The first thing that comes to mind is bathing machines, that were rolled to the edge of the ocean. They were used for changing and for privacy on the beach, not to live in. I've never seen one at an event, but then I've never been to an upper-class event at the seashore. It sounds like you're talking more about a gypsy wagon or something. Can you show us some period images of what you mean?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[LindaTrent]

Re: If I may ... take a few liberties with the discussion

And in there is a whole 'nother conversation, do you build to have everything resemble the exact size of a structure, or do you make it adapt to the furnishing and family using that space? Mine is a 1852 boarding house...

The problem I see is if you're reproducing the rebel women's house it is a very small single dwelling home -- it is not meant to be a boarding house. Have you found documentation that a house that size was used as a boarding house? That's a real question, and not meant to be belittling.

But I'm not really sure what you're asking in regards to furnishing it. One problem is with the fireplace and hearth will take up a fair amount of room, and that leaves you very little room for much of anything else. That's the nature of those sort of buildings, and why they were primarily temporary structures meant to last for a year or two while the owner built a larger home.

Linda.

[Auld Pelty]

Re: If I may ...

Joe,

Here is a photo of a dog trot house that was built by my ancestors in 1830, near San Augustine, TX. I have been reading this thread and appreciate your research, especially the references to "With Blood and Fire: Life Behind Union Lines in Middle Tennessee". It is a very good book.
This house has been modfied somewhat over the 19th and early 20th Centuries, but it is not too hard to see the original structure.
If you ever come to East Texas, I would like to take you on a tour of the Chinaberry House.
Regards,
Fergus

[Spinster]

Re: If I may ...

How the other half lived...........

Okay, the other 3 percent........

http://www.dar.org/omni/virtualtours/museum/AL.html

These furnished rooms in the DAR's constitution hall show a variety of pre-war decorating styles. Many of the Deep South rooms are certainly 'planter class' . Place your mouse on the image and move it to get a 360 view of the room.

In the case of the Alabama room, it moved from a home about a hour south of here, virtually intact. Yes, that is Family Heirloom Weavers carpeting on the floor of many of the rooms.

[LindaTrent]

Re: What you might find in the wild west! Some different ideas

Good Day All,As for portable houses, they did exist, and far earlier than the CW era. Catalogue buildings were shipped around the horn and could be made in wood or sheet iron, and some were imported from other countries.

Yes, but were they portable as in Nomadic, or to the extent that they were shipped to a specific location where they were established as a permanent residence? In Household Words by Charles Dickens.

Wherever we turn, east, west, north, or south, in the old world and in the new, we find a determination existing to make a hollow time of it everywhere. Bending sheet-iron into flutes or hollows is the new way of constructing portable houses--for California, if you choose to go there... It is now almost as easy to go to the diggings with an iron house to your back, as to go to Alabama with a banjo on your knee. The Eagle Foundry at Manchester of corragated iron. They started manufacturing them in 1849. One such was 20 x 10 and consisted of a sitting room and bedroom with 1 inner door and one exterior door and a window in each room. The walls and roof were of sheet iron only an 1/8th of an inch thick. The sheets were 60" x 30" . Every sheet, and every bit of angleiron and T-iron and bolt and rivet, were numbered so that three or four men could put up the house in three or four days; and thus was a fifty-pound house built in a Manchester factory in a week, and neatly packed off ship-wise to the far west. Another iron house for California was of loftier pretensions, -- and if it ever come to the hammer of a Californian auctioneer, he will doubtless describe it in his advertisements as 'a spacious detached residence, capable of accommodating a family of distinction' -- it was two stories high and had eight rooms; but still its walls and roofs were mere sheet-iron. The Prince Consort admired, it is said, a little model iron house at the Great Exhibition, and forthwith ordered a corrugated ball-room for Balmoral; that is, a convenient sheet-iron detached building; which, without provision as a living room, might be serviceable for balls and occasional purposes. This iron pavilion is about sixty feet long, twenty feet wide, and seventeen high to the ridge of the roof; it has cast-iron pilasters (hollow, of course,) and base plates, two plate-iron doors, eight French windows, and corrugated sheet-iron walls and roof. Perhaps this is the first ball-room, except one of canvas, which has walls only one-sixteenth of an inch in thickness; yet the wind is always busy...

The above sounds very similar to a cabin raising in the east, only here they didn't have to number the pieces because the logs were cut and erected pretty much on the same day. But from what I've read in a secondary source Cast-Iron Architecture in America, around the time of the gold rush so many people were pouring into California that there was a shortage of trees and these pre-fab homes were the equivilent of the temporary structures that we threw up here in the east.

So were these houses to be thrown up and then torn down or were they meant to remain in the same location in which they were erected until they were demolished? I honestly don't know, but I'm betting they were to be permanent once they were erected on location in California.

Linda.

[LindaTrent]

Re: What you might find in the wild west! Some different ideas

So were these houses to be thrown up and then torn down or were they meant to remain in the same location in which they were erected until they were demolished? I honestly don't know, but I'm betting they were to be permanent once they were erected on location in California.

Okay, we have a patent on the portable houses now. Here D.N. Skillings gives his object of his invention as

to provide a neat, durable, cheap, and portable house -- on which can readily be put up and taken down in a short period of time by any person of ordinary intelligence... A house constructed in my improved manner can not only be constructed at a small expense, but the parts of it are light and can readily be transported from one place to another and speedily taken down and set up, and constructed on a small scale would be very serviceable to the army as a hospital, being preferrable to a tent made of canvas. It will also be very advantageous as a temporary or permanent habitation for parties who desire a neat, cheap, and comfortable house, and, besides, it can be made of any size and form, as may be desirable.

I will say that I am seeing this primarily as a California thing, and not typical of the east.

Linda.

[Drygoods]

Re: If I may ...

Good Morning All,

Well, to try to clarify some of the things I've said in the past post. When I said that my new place looks like that rebel house, I meant it's only got a door in front and is rather small. And no, boarding houses didn't look anything like that sketch, it's just that I've somehow got to turn a 12x12 portable house (that resembles that Harpers sketch) into a hotel! How I'll do this, I'm not sure, but it takes a wild stretch. It has no chimney, those things no longer being allowed anymore by state parks, the same with permanent structures, which is why the walls must be made in panels and stored elsewhere during most of the year. Open fires are no longer allowed either, so it's a wood stove for all cooking. It's not my choice, my old boarding house was actually two stories, and had three rooms, and two porches with outdoor kitchen. I think that the designer is doing his best to make the whole structure as portable as possible leaving the floor, studs, and shingles stationary. The hardest part for me is that what I've been given to work with is only one-fifth the size of my past structure of what I had used for the past 20 years. I regret to say that here in CA the bliss-ninny bureaucrats and environmentalists are rather hard on the living history crowd, and limit what we do today, as though we aren't allowed to live historically or enjoy ourselves. :tounge_sm(joking and poking fun here)

And yes, I do think that many folks bought portable houses from the East and left them as permanent houses, although some of the smaller ones, did move about quite a bit. In fact, in the west whole towns moved, stores, houses, barns, the entire lot.

As for the bathing houses, no what I've seen are much wider and longer than that, and would take a guess that they are 6-8 feet wide and possibly 12 feet long, maybe longer. Almost a shotgun house on wheels. It's like some sort of rolling daguerreotype studio, yet used for living. In terms of the decoration and trim reminds me of rolling seaside cottages, I didn't mean to say that's what these things were built for. I just was wondering if these sorts of houses on wheels are seen in the East?

Ran out of trees in California? I doubt that. More often than not, fires destroyed towns and which caused such a high turnover for lumber. Sometimes entire streets would be rebuilt just four days after a fire. Likely it's true, portable housing is likely only a western lifestyle. A few visits to former lumber camps, mining towns, and the like will provide examples of how quickly structures went up and down and moved all about.

OK, enough about what I'm doing/thinking, I'll try and find that original catalogue of portable houses and post more information about it later this week. My main point to this thread was to show that portable houses did exist, but let's not forget that it was not the norm all across the country. Would people have used them during the war? ....Possibly since some soldiers might have traveled West for the gold rush and have seen them and later built something to live in on those long winter campaigns. After all, a portable house is JUST a portable house, and likely not intended for long periods of time.

[LindaTrent]

Re: If I may ...

I think what we should be looking at isn't whether or not they had portable homes, but rather whether or not we can produce today homes that resembled what the average citizen of the era lived in. Yes, without a doubt they had portable houses in California, and one can probably find a few in the east as well, but how common were they? I don't really research the west so I'm not going to venture to say, but it is my belief that they would be a rather rare site in the east. I just can't see a grouping of 'rolling daguerreotype studio'-type homes at the next event. I'm sure someone can find evidence that someone lived in one somewhere sometime, but I just don't think it would increase the authenticity level at an event to have one.

Judith, I guess you and I have a different definition of the word "exact." When I looked at the image I imagined that you were having built a log house with a cat-and-clay chimney like in the picture. I don't normally consider just a small house with a front door to be 'exact.'

Personally, I'm still not convinced that portable homes for the purpose of reenacting are worth the time and money to invest in. And if we do then we're still going to have to suspend disbelief because the houses are going to be too small. I prefer using houses on sites that already exist. While I didn't attend the event this year, places like Westville or some other location where they have full size homes, and people can actually perform their daily labors.

Ran out of trees in California? I doubt that.

My information came from a secondary source that I thought looks pretty decent. While I tend to stay away from secondary sources Ms. Gayle's book appeared to take a stand similar to what I would. That the large number of people converging on an area "outstripped the supplies of building materials available locally, creating a booming market for imported prefabricated homes and stores that could be put up quickly." I'm not saying that they had no trees, just that there was at least a perception that hardwood timber was lacking. The California Culturist, Jan. 1859 had this to say.

The Timber of the Pacific... Though rich in her mines of gold and other minerals, rich in her broad mountain plateaus and elevated valleys as the grazing grounds of domestic herds, rich in every department of her agriculture, still richer in the yet unoccupied areas of plain and valley awaiting only improvement, rich in her vast forests of pines and redwoods; yet she is destitute of hard timber. We are fully aware that for the construction of any fabric requiring only the soft woods, California possesses timber in abundance, and of the first quality; but when we want a 'heart of oak,' sixty feet in length and straight, we must send to the Atlantic side for it, and be sure to order enough of hickory of which to make a helve for the ax that works it…

To grow timber to meet the wants of the present or immediately succeeding generations is impossible, even if it could be grown of the strength, hardness and durability desired…

Another great read is also in the California Culturist entitled Injustice to California where the Culturist defends the above article from a reader who states that California has plenty of timber.

The Living Age. December 8, 1849

Houses for California. The rapid settlement of California under the influence of the gold fever has given rise to a traffic of a novel character, namely the exportation of dwellings, hotels, churches, and buildings of every description, framed and ready for erection upon their arrival at their destination. From Boston, Maine, and various parts of the Eastern States, we hear of individuals or companies largely engaged in house-building for California, or exporting lumber -- while from this city and vicinity it may be safely estimated that not less than 5000 buildings have been sent out since the commencement of the 'excitement,' or are now under contract. Doubtless many fortunes will be made, and perhaps not a few lost. Still, 50,000 or 60,000 men, with contant accessions to their numbers, suddenly landed in an inhospitable territory, most of them destitute of even the semblance of a habitation, may be expected to create a demand for dwellings not easily supplied...

The Living Age The New Nation" 1851

But in California forests are a-wanting, fire-wood is scarce, and the timber for houses, &c., is all imported… This deficiency of wood in California, as well as that on the Eastern Prairies, has been ingeniously enough ascribed to the growth of long dry grass which overspreads the country, and which, easily taking fire, would envelop the woods with flame, and thus destroy them…

Dunno, portable houses and California aren't exactly my forte, but that's what I got with a quick google and MOA search. Hope this helps someone. :D

Linda.

[Beth Crabb]

Re: If I may ...

I have followed this and the other portable building thread with much interest, being that my husband and I are the owners of one of the so called portable "play houses". And to clarify one point, our building represented a small town mercantile not a house.

Throughout all the posts, with all the wonderful historical information and quotes, I still have not seen anyone answer this conundrum; what do civilians do at events where there are no historic buildings available? One gentleman seemed to imply that if an event did not have usable historic buildings, civilian reenactors should not be there. That certainly would severely limit the number of events for us.

And no doubt about it, being able to use historic buildings like we did at Westville, made it a "one of a kind" magical event. There is no comparing the store at Westville with any possible temporary set up.

But what about events where there are no structures? At Corinth several years ago, a handful of people worked very hard to replicate the main street as it appeared just before the battle. Were the buildings to scale - no, they were not. But they depicted; a store, a bank, a home, and a tavern all connected by a wooden board walk. From previous statements however, it appears that the Corinth endeavor was a failure, never mind the research & original photo it was based on, since the buildings were smaller scale than the originals.

And what of the Ohio Village at the Ohio Historical Society, abet now closed? Even the Village buildings are not full size but only 7/8 scale.

But back to my conundrum, does anyone have an answer or suggestions? Having struggled to load the supremely heavy panels of our building, chugged along with our diesel truck & trailer groaning with the load (heavier by far than when we hauled our three draft horses) and then unloading and assembling the building, all so that we could provide a visual impression of a mercantile, please tell me, should we not have bothered? Would pretending a tent is a store be a better solution? Or should we have just stayed home?

Beth Crabb

[Drygoods]

Re: If I may ...

Mrs. Trent,
A few quick thoughts on my work break.....

I had to return to the lower Harpers house image and mentioned to my husband, "doesn't this look a lot like the house we've been built?" His reply, was "sure does!" Well, I won't know for sure until I see it, but I'll send pictures and let you know how well a crowd of living history enthusiasts fit into it.

I wrote a long paragraph about the 1850 lumber mill that I grew up on, still located within the Stanislaus National Forest (central Sierras), and now I live within the redwood curtain, (King and Trinity mountain ranges, coastal area) prime lumber area. Trust me, my family knows all about trees and lumber tracts, one reason why I married a forester. No shortage of trees within early California, and no one worried about conservation then. But one thing I would say is that it was rather costly to ship finished lumber, perhaps this was what that secondary source referred to, and I think a book called Gem of the Western Sea will answer the question about lumber and finance. Himself is searching for that book. I've got to get back to work. Kudos for the Littel's Living Age sources, I've got those volumes too and will look into them.

My great apologies Moderators, this seems way off topic:(

[Drygoods]

Re: If I may ...

Eureka! At last, in my hot little mitts I'm holding a copy of D. N. skillings and D. B. Flint's Illustrated Catalogue of Portable Sectional Buildings. Patented November 19, 1861. Costs of these houses ranged in price from $125 to $275. It's roughly about 30 pages long and features these portable buildings: a railroad station house, dwelling houses, barracks and bunks, officer's quarters for dwelling house, country houses, number 10 is a southern house, a school house, express office, and a few others. All give a brief description of materials used, elevation plans, and illustrations of the finished project. BTW, these houses were made in New York City! I got this catalogue copied from the Columbia College library.

I think that I have a few more catalogues, but this one was exactly what you wished for for this particular thread. If wanted, I'll send a copy of it to PogueMahoney and Mrs. Trent, if you'd be so kind as to send your address.
I'll post more later on, with a description of the text

Oh, another thought about trees in CA.....one thing was for certain during the early 1850s, a good deal of wood was brought around the horn from the North East, basically because of the cost of hiring mill workers during the first 5-10 years of CA statehood. Most men left the mills and found it more profitable to dig up dirt.:wink_smil

[Hank Trent]

Re: If I may ...

Okay, here's my two cents.

Throughout all the posts, with all the wonderful historical information and quotes, I still have not seen anyone answer this conundrum; what do civilians do at events where there are no historic buildings available?

I think that's because there is no simple answer. I kinda addressed it in one post on the old locked thread. It's the age-old event-planning process, with the age-old question at the end: research the way things actually were, then figure out how to recreate them, and then wonder, if you can't recreate them the way they were, what's a good enough substitute to make it worthwhile?

Honestly, only event organizers can make a decree that has any practical power, and then only for their own events. Period portable buildings are interesting, but I can see where any other discussion can devolve into a discussion of endless anachronisms and compromises, and away from what period buildings were actually like, which is still the first step.

From an individual viewpoint, Curt Schmidt will be along with a post on mental pictures, personal journeys, and so forth. :D Personally, I believe that suspension of disbelief plays a big part, and it will be different for every person and every circumstance.

At Corinth several years ago, a handful of people worked very hard to replicate the main street as it appeared just before the battle. Were the buildings to scale - no, they were not. But they depicted; a store, a bank, a home, and a tavern all connected by a wooden board walk. From previous statements however, it appears that the Corinth endeavor was a failure, never mind the research & original photo it was based on, since the buildings were smaller scale than the originals.

If one takes the attitude that if something isn't "authentic," it's a failure, then every reenactor and every reenactment is a failure. Since that's a not-uncommon attitude, I've noticed two usual ways of dealing with it.

One is trying to stretch research to defend that everything really is authentic and/or complaining when obvious but unsolvable inaccuracies are brought up. I don't really like that way of dealing with the problem, because it creates an incentive to study history with a modern reenactor bias, rather than following history where it leads, regardless of whether it can be reenacted.

The second way is researching how things were, while cheerfully admitting you're not reenacting things that way, if need be. If people want to define that as a failure, okay, fine, whatever. They can stay home. Like, for example, civilians fleeing on foot from the army carrying everything for several days in the woods. Very rare, very nontypical--even for the already-unusual circumstance of fleeing at the time of the battle rather than staying in one's house or leaving long before. There ought to be houses to stop at along the road, and animal-drawn vehicles or at least horses to ride. It's as oddball as a 10 x 12 portable house.

And yet, I've done that more times than I can remember, only because it's a cheap and practical role for civilians at events. So what? It's more fun than staying home, and still allows me to get some sense of stepping back in time.

Somebody else might find "my tent is my house" a better way of suspending disbelief because what you're imagining is closer to normal life. Somebody else might find it easier to suspend disbelief with a portable house than a tent. Somebody else might find them both hokey and prefer "living" on the porch of a modern home built in the 1860s. Somebody else might not see a reason to care about the differences at all, when the point of the weekend is just socializing with their modern friends.

Personally, I think the main thing is to make clear to participants what'll be real and what'll be imaginary at an event, and then they can decide whether it's what they want, and/or if it's worth supplying what's required.

It's not just a civilian problem. Military reenactors deal with the same issues as well, carefully crafting events to cope with the modern landscape, lack of wagons, animals and fully-populated armies. It's an issue every organizer deals with in his or her own way.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Hank Trent]

Re: If I may ...

I think that I have a few more catalogues, but this one was exactly what you wished for for this particular thread.

Actually, what I'm most interested in is the context in which these houses were actually sold and used. Would a middle to lower-class rural or small-town easterner have heard of them? Seen one? Lived in one? If not that kind of person, who would?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net