People wearing pre civil war clothing

[Thomas Alleman]

I was wondering in men's fashion the wearing of pre-1860's clothing for men was prevalent? Coats, vests, shirts and pants especially. I have some 1830-40's clothing and I was wondering if I could wear them and not be out of fashion or did men really care. I know that men tend to hold on to clothing that should be taken to the Salvation Army. I purge my wardrobe but did they back then?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

I was wondering in men's fashion the wearing of pre-1860's clothing for men was prevalent? Coats, vests, shirts and pants especially. I have some 1830-40's clothing and I was wondering if I could wear them and not be out of fashion or did men really care. I know that men tend to hold on to clothing that should be taken to the Salvation Army. I purge my wardrobe but did they back then?

Fashion inevitably changes, at some point you have to buy something new either because of social pressure or because your old clothing wears out and you can't buy the old fashions. Even if you have clothing custom made and prefer older styles, tailors aren't always willing to make seriously out-dated garments. They're generally interested in making what's most profitable which is generally newer clothing. Sure, there's the second hand market, but even then at some point the older styles become too difficult to find and you must buy something newer. All fashion changes inevitably or we'd still be dressing like our GGG Grandfathers. Generally speaking the oldest clothing you'll see on someone in photographs dating to the Civil War is about 10 years out of date (of course there are those occasional odd-ball photos showing something well beyond its fashionable lifetime). Peg-top sleeves for instance first appeared in England in 1857, it took a few years for these to totally take over, so in 1860-61 you still see guys in mid-1850s sleeve styles (just look at the mid-1850s sleeves on some early war Confederate and Federal state issue frocks). But by 1862-63 most men are wearing coats with peg-top sleeves, it becomes very hard at that point to find anyone in older sleeve styles.

I'd like to see a photograph of someone wearing a complete set of 1830s-1840s clothing in the 1860s, but I never have because 1840s fashion compared to 1860s fashion looks RIDICULOUS. Here's a quote from From pg. 108 of Ready Made Democracy by Michael Zakim:

"Americans, the New York Mirror insisted in its premiere issue, were "perpetually in search of something new," and tailors and clothiers collaborated in promulgating an ethos in which "every thing that tells of hoary antiquity" was suspect. The man who did not manifest progress in his sartorial habits was marked. "The observers point him out among the multitude- 'There is a sample of old times'-'There goes a miser who can't afford a new coat.'...Thus to be out of fashion a man is generally regarded as wanting in spirit or purse."

Granted there are many of us who could care a less about looking fashionable, feeding the family is more important, but even if we don't care, or are trying not to consume modern fashion, we still consume fashion. If you buy clothing at some bargain basement store or even buy old clothes at some 2nd hand clothing dealer you're still consuming clothing that somebody at some point designed and marketed as fashionable and thus you're moving the tide of fashion along, consciously or unconsciously. Clothing also only lasts so long before it wears out altogether. If you're poor and you only have a couple coats, those coats are going to wear out quickly because you wear them all the time. When they're gone where are go going to buy new ones? Will you find ones of the same old style?

So did men wear outdated clothing in the 1860s? Sure, but how outdated was it? Look at original photographs to determine this, but be careful dating the clothing on your own unless you are very familiar with period clothing styles through the decades. Look at original clothing with provenance to determine it's date and whether in or out. There are a few original small fall trousers attributed to Confederate soldiers during the war, but context is important here before every Confederate reenactor runs out and buys a pair. Wearing clothing that reaches as far back as the 1830s-1840s in the 1860s may be a little far fetched so do some serious research to make sure its correct.

[Rmhisteach]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

Thomas ,

I am glad that you asked that question . I had wondered about that myself. I appreciate the comments that david made and think that he is right on. What I have to say will add little but here we go anyway. I noticed in pictures of James Buchanon that he is almost always wearing a tailcoat. This may have been personal preference or may have been that he had the wealth and or power to procure any style he wanted . ??? Also I believe that fashion would have been many factors including your distance from a city or a descent town. If I were a poor man on the Illinois frontier I would not have been as fashionable as a banker in Chicago.

my .02

RM

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

the clothing choices of person engaged in the heavy work of the frontier, like that of all persons engaged in heavy work, is going to be a bit more conservative and sturdy than the clothes he or she would wear to do business in a large city...sure. But it will not nesseccarily be less fashionable. When they replaced the clothing that had worn out, they would have chosen something on the sturdy, conservative side of fashionable...not something that was out-dated signifigantly. There are very few people today who choose to be anacronisms by wearing styles 30-40 years out of date....um...that's the 1970s & 1980s folks... and they are, generally, the oldest of the greybeards/porch patrol who want something they are acoustomed to. Most persons of limited means choose as fashionable as they can afford and even their sturdiest of work clothes get fashionable details. ...and those that don't are made fun of.
Now what makes you smart, logical gents think your 1860s alter-egos weren't the same?

[ElizabethClark]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

Ian's thoughts on this echo with what I've found, and Elaine's comments.

I would not, in general, use 1840s items for the 1860s. Mid-1850s to late 1850s items *might* be used, but it would be on a case-by-case, situation-by-situation basis.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

Thomas ,

I am glad that you asked that question . I had wondered about that myself. I appreciate the comments that david made and think that he is right on. What I have to say will add little but here we go anyway. I noticed in pictures of James Buchanon that he is almost always wearing a tailcoat. This may have been personal preference or may have been that he had the wealth and or power to procure any style he wanted . ??? Also I believe that fashion would have been many factors including your distance from a city or a descent town. If I were a poor man on the Illinois frontier I would not have been as fashionable as a banker in Chicago.

my .02

RM

Tailcoats are were not yet totally unfashionable for day wear in the 1850s, especially for a President posing for a picture. So it's entirely within context.

As far as what all those folksy, primitive, salt of the earth types were wearing on the frontier, well you'd be surprised as to what they had access to. In Charles Dickens American Notes For General Circulation (1843) he talks about his trip out to the vast expanse of the Prairie. On his trip out they passed a wagon that had gotten mired down in the mud, on it's side was painted "Merchant Tailor." Where was the steamboat Arabia headed full of all that wonderful cargo? Were they planning on a future museum, or were they planning on selling to people all across the frontier?

You'd also be surprised what's found in California mining camps of the 1850s, a friend of mine frequently digs these. We're talking camps in incredibly remote areas, he frequently hikes several miles off the nearest somewhat accessible path to find these, and he's already well out into the hills (so I can only imagine how remote they were in the 1850s). And what does he find: English register marked transferware of the latest patterns, door hinges (yes they put actual doors on their cabins), gilt coat buttons, fashionable suspender clips and buckles of the latest styles (these would blow peoples minds to see them), bottles, bottles, bottles, imported goods from England and France, etc. Seems to me, using my modern reenactor common sense, if I were a miner packing it into incredibly remote areas I wouldn't bring such fragile articles as English Pearlware and instead bring wood bowls or tin plates, but there they are in the ground from 1849.

[Rmhisteach]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

David ,

Points taken . I wonder though about those that did not have the $$$ to purchase said goods. Thanks for your thoughts and the information.

RM

[Ian McWherter]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

David ,

Points taken . I wonder though about those that did not have the $$$ to purchase said goods. Thanks for your thoughts and the information.

RM

Those items weren't expensive to begin with, so if they couldn't afford them they must have been vagrant and flat broke and so I imagine they starved and died a miserable death. Life was tough back then...

San Francisco merchants in the early 1850s literally threw anything they couldn't sell into the streets or harbor as fill. The problem wasn't the price, there was simply too much to sell, they couldn't even give it away.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

I just want to add to this discussion about the West somehow being cut off from the East and Europe. The west is not my area of expertise but I encourage the use of newspapers to help fill in the gap of our memory of the west as being wholly somehow backward from the east.

Some examples:

Daily Times [Leavnworth, KS], August 4, 1860 published an article from the New York Times which was published there on July 27th, 1860. The article includes fashionable commentary for what was in style at the moment.

(see: http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/leaven...imes_60-61.htm)

A May 1862 article from the same newspaper notes the concern of women despite the war about fashion and directs women to the post office for Godey's. (see: http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/leaven...imes_61-62.htm)

In November 1861 the Dallas Herald spoke to women and children's fashion using phrases like "This fashion is both English and American, the other is exclusively French" and " Ladies will dress the front hair quite differently this next winter. It will be crimped, curled and puffed out very far at the sides, and not worn close to the face." (see: http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/dallas_herald.htm)

This does not point to automatic use but like Ian (not David, that's just the person he's quoting) I think the archaeological record points to people's use of the material culture being mass produced at the time. The Arabia and the Bertrand points to the needs for people in the west. I hope that someday someone will do as Ann Smart Martin has done for the backcountry of Virginia in the late-18th to early 19th centuries and write about the material world of the west ca. 1835-1880.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

Emmanuel, I've only done "light skimming" of 19th century material culture out here (doing field archaeology through college, and growing up in a gold-rush area, and now living in the outlands of Idaho as we do), but what your thoughts are right in line with everything I've found.

The transportation and communication technologies provided a great deal of contact for the "frontier" regions, particularly as we look 1840 and forward. The quite-current supplies available in the outer reaches (and bought by everyday, not-wealthy people, and used, and discarded, as evidenced by excavating historic trash dumps) can be really surprising when a person first starts looking.

The news didn't just travel East to West, either... the Brooklyn Daily Eagle archive on-line has articles about Oregon and California happenings with delays of only three to four weeks from happening on the western frontier, to publication in New York City! (The route in the late 40s often went: mail packet to San Francisco, mail steamer to Panama, overland by rail to Panama City, and then on to New York. Once the telegraph is established, it goes even faster.)

When we realize that goods and information are coming to the west from all angles (overland from the East, up the rivers on steam boats, across the southern deserts, through the northern mountains, down out of Russian and British Canada, up by ship from South America, over sea from Asia and Hawaii by ship), it's starts getting clear just how mobile and hooked-in the average citizen could be.

[Rmhisteach]

Re: People wearing pre civil war clothing

John C. Brock, Commissary Sergeant, 43d United States Colored Troops oops did it again er ah ... Mr. Dabney,

I caught it . Thanks for the post:D

RM