Should my clothes match?

[lukegilly13]

I appologize up front if there is another thread on this topic...my search has been unable to uncover this discussion (a few that hinted in this direction but not really what i'm shooting for here).
Should civlian clothes match? After looking at tons of period paintings I am sort of confused. One image will depict a fine young fellow wearing black pants, boots, vest, cravat, and hat all on top of a white shirt. This matches according to modern standards. The next image will show a man in black pants, brown frock, green vest, red cravat, and black hat with brown boots...all on top of a white shirt. Should a tasteful civlian's clothes "match" or should they express more of a variety than what modern fashion dictates?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Luke,

It always helps if you can provide the type images intending to discuss...

Paul B.

[Chad Wrinn]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Here is a thread started with plenty of drawings it appears there is a variety of clothing some matching some not.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20701&highlight=cravats+worn+working+class

[PogueMahone]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Socio-economics are probably a big factor. Your social class, employment, income, whether you have a person making your clothes at home or a tailor or are buying off the rack, buying new or used, dressed for a particular occassion/job/purpose, etc., ad nauseum.

This is not a yes/no question.

[Mgreer]

Re: Should my clothes match?

as Joe said it all depends on you status in society and what time period you are portraying 1840's and 50's fassion was different than 60's to an extent

[lhsnj]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Here is an image of some guys from our in the Kansas Missouri area from 1859.
It shows a good mix of outfits.

This is John Doy and the group of men who sprung him from jail.

[rbruno]

Re: Should my clothes match?

There is a very good discussion of this question on The Sewing Academy Forum. I think the topic question is the same, so try a search there. There are plates of men's fashions with men wearing all sorts of combinations.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Hallo!

Just to add...

As the French used to say, "ensuite," before someone invented indoor bathrooms...

;) :)

Matching coat, vest, and trousers "go back" at least to the 18th century.

It was considered something of a "statement" to match all three- as often, the coat and the vest would compliment each other and the trousers would be the odd man out.

This seems to have evolved as something of a social "protest" of sorts with the rise of the "suit of clothes" or the "sack suit" becoming more socially accepted except for formal wear (where the practice of mismatched trousers
and noticeable trim on coats/jackets continued).

But, as shared, that is a socio-economic thing of what a man could afford, as well as a personal choice of what a man's desire to make a statement about himself could be.

Curt

[lukegilly13]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Luke,

It always helps if you can provide the type images intending to discuss...

Paul B.

Sorry, should have been more clear. Chad was right about the thread containing pictures...I looked at it earlier. When I made the post I had in mind strictly citizens and not those pressed into military service. Borrowing these images from Ian's photobucket:

This is a spectacular painting...there's a HUGE version located at the Lincoln Memorial Museum. Most of these guys I would consider "matching".
Here is an image where they do not match so much:

Notice the guy on the right with black shoes, black cravat, brown hat and coat and the guy in the middle with the contrasting purplish vest.

Just wondering if not matching was the norm or are these liberties taken by the artist...in period images it may not be possible to tell because the lack of color...shading is a clue but it doesn't determine one way or another.

Thanks for the information posted so far. There are changes from the 1850's to the 1860's....This may include a shift toward the more of a "suit of clothes" appearance that is so popular today.

I'm interested in the class difference. I hadn't looked at it from that angle. In looking at the above images I believe these guys clashed their outfits on purpose...but this opens a new can of worms...looking at the possability of those who were wearing all they could obtain.

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Should my clothes match?

This is Virginia's spouse posting.

When looking at period images, two words of caution.

With photographs, you will have absolutely no idea of the actual color. On our website (raggedsoldier.com) in the menu item "Articles: Virginia's Veranda" there is an archived article on period photography and how colors reacted to the photo process of the time. Virginia also spoke on this topic at the last Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860's conference and the was a Citizen's Companion article many years ago. The bottom line is they didn't all dress in dark colors but you can't guess the color by the shade of grey you see in the picture.

With paintings, you do have colors but the artist may have taken liberties for the sake of composition. The images shown are possibly pretty close, especially for showing the possibility of mixing colors but I don't know if that was indicative of a certain socioeconomic class. If so, it could have been a subtle labeling of the subjects of the painting.

Michael Mescher

[Hank Trent]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Most of these guys I would consider "matching".

I'm not seeing that at all. I'm seeing the same basic clothing in both images. Not a single man in the upper image has matching clothes, except maybe the fellow seated under the speaker, but it's hard to tell if his clothes actually match or are just all dark due to the shadow.

The artist's pallet is different, or maybe the lighting of the photos used to create the computer images, or the cleanliness of the paintings or whatever. But you can see similar mixes of clothes.

In the upper painting, check out the fellow at the extreme right, looking out of the picture, and compare him to the pipe-smoker in the lower photograph. Straw hat, blue coat, could be a lavender vest, white shirt with small (or no) cravat. I see them dressed the same, just in a different overall lighting.

In the upper painting, check out the fat fellow seated on the platform at the extreme left, and compare him to the man on the left in the lower painting. Dark coat, yellow vest, tan pants.

Those paintings were ten years before the war, so things were a little more colorful then. Here's where we're headed by 1873, and this is an example of what I'd call a scene where most (or at least half) of the men were wearing matching clothes:



But thanks to the images, I think you're using the word "matching" to mean something different than I would. To me, matching would mean the same colors: black coat and/or black vest and/or black trousers (two out of three) on the same man. Or two out of three the same shade of brown, or blue, or whatever.

By "matching," do you mean something like wearing three different colors, but in such a way that they "coordinate"?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[lukegilly13]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Yes, "coordinate" would be a better word. To me the image of Lincoln's campaign shows gents in outfits that tend to flow in color....in other words...their general theme is light tan or at least most have brown shoes, brownish coats, and brownish/light hats.
In the other image you have guys with light coats and black shoes with very colorful vests and/or cravats.

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Choosing colored garments that "go together" does take a practiced eye. Many men are not confident with what their "eye" tells them, so groupings of colored garments have come to be considered "Classic" combinations. The all black "suit" with the white shirt, linen "suit" with the tan vest.. are examples. Those ensembles are accepted as "going together", a gent can wear them together and know "the important people" will think he's well put together. Menswear does this even today. Take the example of khaki chinos, blue oxford shirt, red & blue stripe tie, navy blue sportcoat, with cordovan leathers... conservative, classic... In period many paintings, prints, & fashion plates put similar color combos together consistantly. The look of dark blue frock coat, black vest, buff trousers, black or burgundy cravat, and black accessories comes readily to mind. Gents with a more bold eye chose other palettes to work with, just as some gents do today. Most will choose a dominant color, a complimentary subordinate color, and fill out the rest of the ensemble with pleasing nuetrals. For a few good ideas on how to do this a quick parusal of Ask Andy or in Bernhard Roetzel's "Gentleman's Guide to Grooming and Style" should prove helpful.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Hallo!

Aha, now that's a clothes horse of a different color.

;) :)



Curt
Ensuite ensemble Mess

[PogueMahone]

Re: Should my clothes match?

Curt,

Is that an image of journalists and foreigners? Seems like I've seen the image and some of those imaged before.