White Collars

[Kykeydet12]

well this is the first time I have ever posted in the civilian discussion but i suppose that you folks will know more about this subject than I do. Let me lay out the basics for you so you can understand the prediciment.
I am workign on puttign together VMI cadet impressions for the Camp Lee Event in 2011. These cadets are to be cadet drill masters and are goign to be required to wear full dress uniform as well as fatigue uniform. The cadet's dress uniform is coatee and is much like the one that the cdets wear today with a couple of differences. However white collars are still worn. The ones we wear today are not correct for the impression we are doign and are too short for the collar of the shirt.
Now in my studies I have picked up a compliation of letters written by cadet private stanard to various family member and aquaintences. In one letter dated April 14th 1863
"I wrote to you about making me collars did you ever get the letter.
Now for my question, In what way can one go about making the proper period collars. I shall attatch a picture of one of the cadets in his dress uniform of the period to give you a general idea of how high they should be. Also Paul may want to wiegh in on this but did most fake collars of the period attatch to the shirt or to the jacket and if so, how?
If anyone has done any research on this or if there has been a thread already then please disregard this.
Thank you all, god bless, and Charlie Mike.

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: White Collars

Here's your basics... There are several methods of attaching detachable collars to the shirt. (It would definately be to the shirt!) Method 1) collar studs in front and back, 2) collar studs at front, back, & sides, 3) hook to the front button and tie in back, 4) tie around the neck and hope it's tailored enough to stay in place. Here's a link to a commercially available pattern that can be made up: http://www.tstitches.com/store/TSM-716.htm though the pattern says through the 1830s, the tall standing collar is the model you are looking for... you will want to adjust the height in person to fit under your coatee collar.

I hope this gives you a start.

[Johann Van De Leeuw]

Re: White Collars

Would you attach a collar to a collarless osnaburg shirt, p'raps if you're poor?

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: White Collars

yep.. or even if he's not poor, just likes that osnaberg shirt.. as seen here: and here

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: White Collars

yep.. or even if he's not poor, just likes that osnaberg shirt.. as seen here:

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know the Library of Congress numbers for those two images? I really would like to get a closer look. Thanks,

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: White Collars

nope... I got them from a friend while researching for a client :) ...I'll see if I can find 'em.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: White Collars

Now for my question, In what way can one go about making the proper period collars.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any period construction patterns or methods for making paper collars myself. Perhaps someone has a reference or, even better, a method book on them.

That being said, while you did provide a letter on paper collars, the photos may not show them. The files are a little small to discern but the collars could just be starched or worn tall but not a separate piece from the shirt itself (see third attachment). It may prove useful to look up the VMI uniform regulations to see if they have the same-issue shirts.

Would you attach a collar to a collarless osnaburg shirt, p'raps if you're poor?

Clearly, many officers and working-class laborers have been photographed wearing paper collars but it would be worthwhile checking out the Library of Congress images.

[crabby]

Re: White Collars

Elaine,
Could you post the source for the methods of attaching collars you sited?

Thank you

[VMurphy]

Re: White Collars

Great photos....I'm just learning here and wonder, by the photos what sort of distinquishing features say it is a paper collar and not a starched fabric one???

Thanks
Vivian Murphy

http://www.themantuamaker.net

[Kykeydet12]

Re: White Collars

see my question is were they deffinatly paper? or could they be cloth also? And if they were paper then what sort of paper would have been used?

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: White Collars

Removable collars of the period that I have researched include three varieties: fine cotton or linen, paper, and enameled steel. Also, collars do not have to be stark white as I have found some photographic evidence of white collars with extremely subtle stripes worn buttoned to a white shirt.

[VMurphy]

Re: White Collars

Brian..
Thanks for your informantion about collars. I noticed that there is a pattern available through Period Impressions patterns for collars and ties.
But, speaking from experience, making collars to fit a shirt (or a dress) neckline is very individual.! They are simply a collar sewn to a band which is then buttoned or hooked to the shirt and it appears they have one button at the front to fasten it.
This would indeed be something personal that a mother or sisters could supply the soliders from home.


Regards
Vivian Murphy

http://www.themantuamaker.net

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: White Collars

John -

I'm not Elaine, but I can list some of the sources I've found.

The best primary source is, of course, original shirts and original detachable collars. Studying the original garments shows how the two pieces work together. It also indicates the particular method used to attach a collar to that particular garment.

Photographic images are a great source, especially dated images that show the wearer in context. The LOC images Elaine posted (cropped, enhanced and previously posted by Brian Koenig) and cdvs's provide information on when styles change and which age group was wearing which style. Portraits and genre paintings are another overlooked source.

To achieve a period look, the neckline of the shirt and the neckband of the collar must be cut using period drafts. Necklines on period garments are noticeably different from the necklines on modern base patterns, and the detachable collar must be cut accordingly. Period drafting manuals like those listed below are helpful in comparing mid-19th and 21st century necklines:
Compaing, Charles. The Tailor’s Guide: A Complete System of Cutting Every Kind of Garment to Measure, Containing Upwards of Five Hundred Diagrams. Two Volumes.London: Simpkin, Marshall, 1855-1856.
Devere, Louis. The Handbook of Practical Cutting on the Centre Point System (1866). The Handbook of Practical Cutting on the Centre Point System. 1866.

Some of the period etiquette and 'advice' manuals mention men's shirts and collars and how they should fit:
Conkling, Margaret. The American Gentlemen’s Guide to Politeness and Fashion. New York: Derby and Jackson, 1857
Frost, S. Annie. The Art of Dressing Well: A Complete Guide to Economy, Style and Propriety of Costume. New York: Dick & Fitzgerald, 1870.

Advertisements with illustrations are a great source for shapes, styles and methods of attachment.

One of the better secondary sources I've found is the book Collars…Stocks…Cravats: A History and Costume Dating Guide to Civilian Men’s Neckpieces 1655-1900 by Doriece Colle [Emmaus, PA: Rodale Press, 1972]. It contains a wealth of information on collar styles, construction, and methods of fastening them to the shirt. It includes numerous portraits and photos, as well as line drawings of various collar shapes.

A proper cut and a careful fit are key elements in producing a collar that fits well and stays in place. Allowances must be made for extra layers and the 'roll of the cloth'. Although it is a contemporary souce, David Page Coffin's book Shirtmaking: Developing Skills for Fine Sewing is an excellent source for learning the fine art of shirtmaking and creating collars. Especially helpful is his list of sources for fabrics and stiffenings.

Information on collar studs can be found in books on men's accessories and books on mid-19th century jewelry.

General costume histories that discuss men's clothing also have some information:
Byrde, Penelope. The Male Image: Men’s Fashion in Britain, 1300-1970. London: B.T. Batsford, Ltd., 1979
Chenoune, Farid. A History of Men’s Fashions. Paris: Flammarion, 1993.
Cunnington, C. Willet and Phillis Cunnington. Handbook of English Costume in the Nineteenth Century. Boston: Plays, Inc. 1970.
Davenport, Milia. The Book of Costume. New York: Crown Publishers, 1948.
Eckstein, E. and G. Firkins. Gentlemen’s Dress Accessories. UK: Shire Publications, 1994.
Shep, R.L. and Gail Cariou. Shirts & Men’s Haberdashery 1840s to 1920s. Mendocino, CA: R.L. Shep, 1999.
Waugh, Norah. The Cut of Men’s Clothes 1600-1900. New York: Theatre Art Books, 1964.

I haven't done as much research on how paper collars were constructed. I have noticed one feature that is common on many of them: during the construction process the paper collar was embossed to create the illusion of a woven fabric, with indentations fto create a line similar to top- or edge-stitching. On some of the finer examples, it took very close examination to determine if I was looking at cloth or paper. This embossing is even more prevalent on women's detachable collars and cuffs, where it expands beyond creating a woven look to include the illusion of embroidery and edging.

Many of the extant detachable cloth and paper collars sold in antique shops today date from well after the war - the end of the 19th or sometime in the 20th century. It may be necessary to compare shape, size, fiber and markings to determine when the collar was actually made. A detachable Edwardian collar is not appropriate for an 1860s shirt; and it won't fit an earlier neckline like it should.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: White Collars

I hope others will join me in saying, THANK YOU Carolann. She is always more than generous in her abilit y to provide period and secondary research and offer her own observations of original garments.

This is the way we all should be researching!

[crabby]

Re: White Collars

Carolann,
Thank you for the information. I have a shirt with detachable collar, made from a pattern by a well known and respected company. Even with front, side and back button studs, it develops gaps. Thankfully, a fellow my age can prefer wider cravats that hide the deficiencies :wink_smil

Maybe I can nudge my sewist into another try and achieve a better fit.

Sincerely,