Mens Civilian Items

[508preach]

I'm looking for a quality Frock Coat and Tail Coat that wont break the bank but still will be decent enough for authentic events such as westville, does anyone know of any person making Frocks and Tail Coats decently at good prices?

[GWagner]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

Hey,

Check with Justin Morris. He may have a nice Sack Coat.

[Brandon]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

PM Sent


-Brandon Hand
48th NYSV Co. F
SCAR

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

I'm looking for a quality Frock Coat and Tail Coat that wont break the bank but still will be decent enough for authentic events such as westville, does anyone know of any person making Frocks and Tail Coats decently at good prices?

Finding someone on Earth that can make a civilian frock coat and tailcoat like an original and for a price that doesn't break the bank would be nothing short of a miracle. There's a reason why very few people offer these garments and even fewer who make anything that resembles an original.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

If some of these military suppliers would do a run once a year, I bet they'd find enough business to make it profitable.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

If some of these military suppliers would do a run once a year, I bet they'd find enough business to make it profitable.

A run of civilian frock coats, really? These things aren't as simple as producing 4-button machine sewn contract blouses, even Federal issue frocks are a cake walk by comparison (how many of those do you see on the market). I have two dozen original civilian frock coats and tailcoats in my collection, they are works of art and are beyond the ability of even some of our top makers to reproduce. Nothing about these coats lend themselves to modern mass production. They were made in a time when labor in this country was SUPER cheap (nobody cared about starving journeymen tailors and seamstresses going blind), so why not hand sew as much as you can even though sewing machines were available. Every time I make one of these things it's like running a marathon, by the time I'm done I'm totally worn out mentally from extreme concentration and I have to take a brief vacation to let my fingers heal.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

Ian,

Surely you recognize that the things that pass for authentic in this hobby are far inferior to the originals? Why should a civilian pattern frock be any different?

he said with a smirk,

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

Ian,

Surely you recognize that the things that pass for authentic in this hobby are far inferior to the originals? Why should a civilian pattern frock be any different?

he said with a smirk,

True, in that sense a run of frocks would be entirely plausible.;)

[Thomas Alleman]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

Have you tried Corner Clothiers, they do make civilian clothes also and Brian is a fine tailor.

[tmdreb]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

The main problem with obtaining these two types of garment is that you have to really want one badly enough to pay for it in good money or time and effort.

Probably the only way to get a good one for a low price would be if someone else gave it to you as a present.

Joe, to do a run of these things, you'd either have to make them simple and ugly enough that everyone would complain about the quality, otherwise, they'd just complain about the price and not buy them.

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

The point of the frock coats that no one has mentioned yet, except Mr. McWherter's oblique reference, is that each coat was custom made for one person. One can't "do a run" and have a coat have the tailored-for-one-person look that civilian clothing needs to pass for quality. It is even more than having a correct sleeve length and chest size.. it is where each of the seams hit an individual body, how the fabric is cut to give in all the right places and none of the wrong ones, the precise fitting that comes from making one unique garment meant to fit one man, the "custom"er.
They are right to tell you that Ian McWherter and Corner Clothiers make just such works of art. Jim Ruley is one of the most respected names in the tailoring business. I do custom-tailoring, listed as Ivy Wolf Design. We're here, but we don't "do a run"... we do works of art... and art ain't cheap... reasonable, but not cheap.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

I will only echo that if you want a frock coat you're going to have to pay for it. Expecting no less than $300 for a linen coat and no less than $600 for a wool broadcloth coat. The detail required by professionals who study original garments to reproduce these items and the cost of materials and lack of constant demand (unlike in the nineteenth century) is some of the reasons for the cost.

However, not all frock coats in this period were professionally made for the individual. The booming second hand clothing market in large cities as well as the ready-made clothing industry produced many goods for men in the decade and a half leading to the Civil War.

I will draw attention to a book:

Zakim, Michael. Ready-Made Democracy: A History of Men's Dress in the American Republic, 1760-1860 (Chicago: University Of Chicago Press, 2003).

Additionally, as I am known for among some of the fellow forum members I highly recommend using Vicki Betts' newspaper database (http://www.uttyl.edu/vbetts). For example:

COLUMBUS [GA] ENQUIRER, April 10, 1860, p. 4, c. 6

$50,000
Stock of
Ready Made Clothing!
Gent's
Furnishing Goods,
Is now offered at
Reduced Prices
at the
Cash Clothing Emporium
Rosette, Melick & Co
No. 125 Broad St.,
Columbus, Ga.,

The following embraces a few of the Goods in Store:

Overcoats, Overcoats.

100 Moscow Beaver from $22 to $30 00
50 Black " from 18 to 28 00
30 Blk and Col'd Cloth from 10 to 25 00
100 Pilot and Cass. from 7 to 10 00
200 Lion and Seal Skin from 8 to 20 00
250 Satinette and Mohair from 6 to 10 00
100 Blanket and Flushing 3 to 5 00

Business Coats.

100 Black Beaver, plain, from $14 to $25 00
100 " " ribbed, 16 to 20 00
500 Fancy Cas. Sacks & Fr's 7 to 20 00
300 Satinett and Union Cass. 3 to 6 00
100 Flushing Sacks 2 50
100 Peter Sham Satt 3 00
250 Satt. and Kersey Jacket 2 to 3 50

Black Cloth Fr. Coats.

100 Black Cloth Frock Coats at $25 00
100 Black Cloth Frock Coats at 20 00
100 Black Cloth Frock Coats at 15 00
100 Black Cloth Frock Coats at 12 00
50 Black Cloth Frock Coats at 10 00

Pants, Pants, Pants

450 Pair Black Doe Skin Cas. $4 to $10 00
600 Pair Fancy Cass. 3 to $10 00
500 Pair Black and Fancy Satt. 2 to 4 00
150 Pair Blue Satinett 2 to 2 50
100 Pair Kersey 1 50

Vests, Vests, Vests.

250 Black and Fancy Silk Velvet and Plush
Vests from $5 00 to $12
500 Blk. and Fan. Silk do. 2 50 to 8
100 Black Satin 2 50 to 6
300 Fancy Cass. 2 00 to 5
100 Black Cass. 3 00 to

Boys and Youth's
Clothing!

We have now in Store a Complete assortment to FIT ALL SIZES, from 4 to 16 years of age, viz.:
100 Boys' Satt. Round Jackets, $2 00 to $3
150 Boys' Gray, Black Cloth do 3 50 to 6
100 Brown and Blue Cloth do 4 50 to 6
200 Boys' Fancy Cass. Sack and Fr. Coats 5 00 to 9
100 Boys' Black Cloth Coats 7 00 to 14
75 Black Satt. Coats 3 00 to 4
125 Boys' & Youths' Overcoats 3 00 to 14
175 Pr. Boys' Fancy Cass Pants 2 50 to 6
125 Pr. Black Cass. Pants 3 50 to 6
150 Boys' Cass., Silk Vests 1 75 to 4

Cash
Clothing Emporium,
No. 125 Broad Street,
Columbus, Georgia.
3,000 Hats! 3,000 Caps!
Of Every Shape, Color and Quality!

And are offered at LOWER PRICES than was ever known in the City, for the same style.

Rosette, Melick & Co.,
125 Broad street,
Columbus, Georgia.

Trunk Depot,
No. 125
Broad St. Columbus Ga.

All who are in want of Trunks, Carpet Bags, Valises, Ladies' Bonnet Boxes, can find a complete assortment at the

Trunk Depot,
No. 125 Broad St.

The following are a few of the styles we have in store:
Ladies' Sole Leather Trunks;
Ladies' Saratoga do. 3 sizes;
Gents' Sole Leather do., 3 qualities;
Gents' English Leather do.;
100 Packing Trunks, 4 sizes;
Sole Leather Valises;
Wood Frame Valises;
Leather, Enamel, Cloth and Carpet Bags.
We would invite an examination of our Stock, feeling assured that the Style, Quality and Assortment that we are enabled to exhibit, together with Unusual Low Prices! cannot fail to please, and give perfect satisfaction. We feel warranted in saying that none will go away dissatisfied, or have cause of regret.

Rosette, Melick & Co.

(See http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/columbus_enquirer.htm)

[CYoungJSU]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

Em-

I have only been following this thread for a few days now, seems like forever since I have been following anything on this board during the summer season! Thank you for bringing to our attentions the fact that second hand clothing markets were popular in many of the urban areas and that, in fact, ready-made clothing was available in large quantities for individuals to take off the rack, try on, buy and take home (with the exception of the possible nip/tuck of a tailor). :wink_smil

[VMurphy]

Re: Mens Civilian Items

I've just been reading this thread and must agree regarding the stitching of Frock Coats.
They require much time to make if they are properly fitted and constructed for the individual. I've made a few for friends and would never even consider a job unless the customer could be close by for regular fittings.

On the other hand, I will make a sack coat for customers.They are much easier to construct and require much less tailoring. Perhaps that's why there were many more of them seen in images that the frock.

The gentlemen tailors that frequent this forum are a wealth of information and I've learned a lot from their posts.
But I've been sewing/tailoring for more years than I care to think about. The customer that wants a good fitting garment, expects to pay for it. But of course always within reason.

Regards
Vivian Murphy

http://www.themantuamaker.net