quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

[Bill Cross]

OK, thanks to the ladies, I went with the single layer of wool batting for my vest, but it's bedeviled me to sew with it on a machine. Can't sew it wool-batting-side down, else the wool gets caught in the works; sewing it wool side up means the foot tends to get caught in the wool and rend it.

Also, the batting is now considerably flatter than before. Am I missing some trick or method here?

[ElizabethClark]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

Hand quilting is your best bet, unless you use some very fine "cheesecloth" or other light, sheer cotton as a backer to the wool, to prevent it getting caught in the machine foot or feed dogs. That backer will also prevent the wool "bearding" or working through the outer or lining fabric.

I don't know the commonality of machine-quilted vest linings over hand-quilted, though... I'm anticipating hand work will likely be the more common of the two, as tailors were pretty good at resisting the machine in trade use.

The batting will compress with quilting; but there will be enough loft remaining to give a smooth, lightly shaped slope to the vest fronts, which is what you want. Otherwise, the vest will lack structure, and just sort of hang there unpleasantly. Think, "superlight blankie" rather than "gore-tex puffy quilt" and it may make more sense. :)

If you opt for hand quilting, you'll be using a plain old running stitch, quite small, in thread to match the lining color in many cases.

[Hank Trent]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

I'm going to take this in a different direction. I'm assuming you're talking about a vest where the batting is quilted to the lining of the fronts, so the stitching is visible on the lining of the finished vest?

I don't know about that, but here's another alternative, based on an original vest we have: attaching the batting to tailor's canvas, and then sandwiching that between the outer front fabric and the lining front fabric, so it "floats" except where it's tacked to the vest at the edges, and no quilting stitches are visible once the vest is finished.

The way the batting is held to the canvas is with long hand stitches on the batting side and shorter ones on the canvas side, working up and then down, so it looks like this:

/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \

The only quick photo of this style of stitches I could find was on a modern hand-tailored suit here: http://www.sabatinioflondon.net/page...tsmanship.html

In answer to the earlier question about how thick the batting should be and whether it should be in multiple layers... If you're doing this style, the idea is that there shouldn't be a visible line where the padding ends, so you want several thin layers of batting, each cut smaller than the next, so it gradually builds up to the full thickness where it's wanted in the upper chest, tapering away to nothing at the waist or wherever it's not needed.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[MrsArmstrong]

Padding stitch

Check out this site under "Lesson 42"

http://vintagesewing.info/1910s/17-ad/ad-06.html

http://www.resil.com/dictionary/p.htm

definition of "padding stitch"

Hope this is helpful.
Susan Armstrong

[Bill Cross]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

Thank you, Elizabeth and Susan.

So Hank, if I understand correctly, you're saying the batting should be attached to a light canvas interlining with this herringbone stitching, then inserted between the layers when they're put together? That would give the vest front not only fullness, but added shape from the canvas, which is heavier than the lining material, and stiffer than the velveteen fabric. Am I correct?

[Hank Trent]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

Bill,

That's correct. The canvas doesn't even need to line the entire area if it's not needed. A really fine tailor will suit the padding to the individual for the best look and fit, but that's beyond the skill of us mere mortals. :)

It's the same method that was used until fairly recently in men's finer suits, and is still done at the highest levels of custom-made suits, just like hand-sewn buttonholes, so even a long post-war book on tailoring may describe it in more detail for you. From a modern tailor's website at http://www.ravistailor.com/news.php?ItemNo=40 :

First developed during the 1950s, the process of bonding or gluing a layer to an outside shell fabric has evolved to a level where it can nearly simulate the softness and flexibility of the hand-sewn canvas used in tailored men’s clothes. Formerly, this layer of reinforcement placed between the coat’s outer cloth and inner lining consisted of one or more ply of horsehair and regular canvas secured by numerous hand stitches. When suspended by the elasticity of its hand make silk stitches, its free-floating dynamic gave the jacket’s front a lasting shapeliness and drape while lending pliancy and spring to the roll of its lapel.

I haven't looked at enough original vests to see one with quilting stitches visible, but I have seen that style in frock coats. I've seen a very thin layer of padding quilted to the lining in both the chest and the back of the coat, with the real shaping in the chest still done by the method above, by sandwiching an invisible layer between the outer fabric and the lining.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

[QUOTE=Hank Trent]
I haven't looked at enough original vests to see one with quilting stitches visible, but I have seen that style in frock coats.

I've looked at approximately 100 original civilian vests. While the majority of these had some padding in the front (the exception often being lightweight summer vests with either no padding or removable padding), I don't recall a single padded vest that had visible quilting lines on the lining. I will have to go back and re-check my tailoring manuals, but I don't recall it being mentioned in any of them in relation to vest construction. As Hank mentioned, visible quilting lines on readily found on frock coats of the period, but the general construction techniques for the two garments differs.

Bill wrote:
"the batting is now considerably flatter than before. Am I missing some trick or method here?"

I can only emphasize using a light hand when quilting the padding to the interlining, and the pad stitching Hank mentioned will definitely help in achieving that. The pad stitches should "float" on top of the batting when it is sewn to the fabric; they should not cause any indentations into the batting itself.

Bill also wrote:
"That would give the vest front not only fullness, but added shape from the canvas, which is heavier than the lining material, and stiffer than the velveteen fabric. "

There are many different weights of tailor's canvas with different amount of body. Unless your velveteen fabric is very lightweight with a soft hand ("hand" refers to the amount of body the fabric has and how it drapes") I wonder whether you really want and/or need a canvas which is stiffer than the velveteen. The ultimate goal is to add structure through shaping and support while retaining ease of movement and comfort. It's tailoring, not upholstery or heavy construction. :)

[ElizabethClark]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

My thanks to Hank and Carolann in clarifying the use of the padding as an interlining, rather than the visible quilting I was envisioning! One big plus of padding stitches as opposed to "quilting" is that it works up a LOT more quickly in my opinion--the stitches are a bit bigger, no need to pull them terribly taut (just smooth--as Carolann mentioned, no indentations)... once you get the movement of the stitch down, it goes fairly quickly.

Carolann and Hank, would you recommend a very light tailoring canvas, or would something incredibly light, like muslin, be an alternative inside a vest of this sort?

[Bill Cross]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

I wonder whether you really want and/or need a canvas which is stiffer than the velveteen. The ultimate goal is to add structure through shaping and support while retaining ease of movement and comfort. It's tailoring, not upholstery or heavy construction. :)

I don't see how I can avoid using the light canvas interlining, since I need something to baste the batting to. Which side, by the way, should the batting face? Outside to the velveteen, or inside to the lining?

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

Elizabeth wrote:
"...would you recommend a very light tailoring canvas, or would something incredibly light, like muslin, be an alternative inside a vest of this sort?"

It depends on the other fabrics that are being used. I can only reiterate that you have to look at all of the materials as a total package - outer fabric, batting, lining, other interfacings - and select the combination that works together the best. On the originals that have been in a condition that I can examine the inner construction, I've found everything from a light or very lightweight canvas to a very lightweight muslin.

I don't see how I can avoid using the light canvas interlining, since I need something to baste the batting to. Which side, by the way, should the batting face? Outside to the velveteen, or inside to the lining?

If the canvas is really lightweight it may be perfectly appropriate, Bill. And you do need something as a base for the batting. My concern was when you mentioned it was stiffer than the velveteen. Most velveteens have a fair amount of body, and I didn't want to see you end up with a straight-jacket instead of a vest. :) And generally, the batting should face the lining. You have my sympathies if you're working on velveteen - it is not the easiest fabric to tailor.

[Drygoods]

Re: quilting help-- wool batting & lining a vest

When I pad my husband's vests and collars, I use hair cloth and batting and sometimes cover it all with cotton so that it breathes well. I put the haircloth, or sometimes hemp in the center and place batting on either side and do pad stitching in a diagonal manner. If this is a pad that I will remove for laundering, I whip stitch the cotton over all to keep it nice and tidy and prevent it from shifting when I take it out.
I prefer to leave the piece in and wash the vest as a whole, most vests that I make are silk, lined with polished cotton, but often it is better for the vest to let the padding dry outside of the vest. If you make a few tacks of the padding into the lining seams, it will be easy for you to open and remove from the side seam.
Some pads had a button at the top to hold it in place while the side seam had the anchors and was whip stitched closed. Of course the collar is not sewn in any way which can be removed ( I am speaking of the wide shawl collar style). My husband looks good with that pidgeon breasted look with wasp waist of the 1840-50s. Padding gives the vest great shape and structure and is comfortable.
Before closing all, I add an inside vest pocket to the lining which is not visible because of the padding ...his safe place for seegars.
I would suggest using a buttonhole twist thread to perform the pad stitching as sometimes just cotton thread is not heavy enough. My view is if the vest can stand on it's own when completed, it's just fine. :D
My husband might offer a few other suggestions as he sews his own clothes and enjoys doing the pad stitching which is dull for me. Good luck. I am sure your vest will look great.
Mfr,
Judith Peebles