Immersion: fun or scary?

[Silvana Siddali]

Good morning, everyone. I belong to a group of reenactors who get together twice a year to hold private immersion events in a historic village in Illinois called Independence. We would like to encourage more folks to join in our events, but one thing we hear fairly often is that people are either intimidated by the idea of an immersion event, or that they don't feel quite ready. Some worry that their gear isn't perfect or that they don't have a collection of the necessary household goods. Many fear that they won't be able to participate in first-person conversations, or that they will feel awkward and stilted.

So we have been talking among ourselves to figure out ways of de-mystifying or de-scarifying immersion--mostly because it is enormous fun, and such a wonderful way to visit and really live in the past.

Therefore we would like to open up a discussion about what immersion is really like, and why it shouldn't scare anyone. I can start with a few points:

First, if you are in the midst of daily life in the nineteenth century, then you will have plenty to talk about. There's so much to do, and so much to gossip and laugh about. You'll be amazed at how quickly first-person becomes completely natural and comfortable. In fact I find it the best way to de-stress from my hectic job and modern life.

Second, if everyone is in first-person mode all the time, then it becomes very easy just to let the present go.

Third, if you don't have the clothing or household gear, don't worry--everyone is happy to pitch in with loaners and advice. Several of the village members have volunteered to mentor you every step of the way.

Fourth, getting away from the internet, from cell phones, from job-talk, from complaints about traffic and politics, can be as refreshing as a month-long vacation.

These ideas are meant to apply to all immersion events, not just the ones in Independence, of course.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

There was a side conversation on another thread that might apply here.

Elaine Kessinger made the point here about how complex any portrayal is, even if it seems simple:
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...706#post227706

And I agreed, but pointed out how one can work around that:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...709#post227709

It's true that everyone in the 19th century knew far more about everything than we do, but the goal is not to duplicate that, but to give the illusion of duplicating that. Choosing a role that will cover up your weak spots and let you focus on what you do know, is an easy way to create the illusion.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[georgerutherford1861]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

From my own point of view, I would posit that first person is fun and scary at the same time.

I often feel very self-conscious when working at first person, am afraid that modern lexicon will slip into the conversation, so sometimes I am a bit quiet while others are talking. So long as folks don't think I'm being unsociable, this seems to work okay, although I feel bad that I can't keep up my end of the conversation all the time. That being said, great first person people that I have been around seem to know how to help one along in these sorts of things, and being the good people that they are they help to hold up the conversation and keep embarassment of the unskilled to a minimum.

Doug Frank

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Every person is going to find different aspects scary and it's hard to cover each one of them.

Remember that no one is a stranger for long. If you are meeting many of the participants for the first time, especially if they have had previous annual events for their characters to form a community, you might like to choose a visitor or new arrival to the event community for your role. You would then have the chance to steer conversation towards subjects you know something about and hear fellow participants geek-out on their favorite topics. In subsequent years, as you become more confident in the community, you can choose roles that are less of a stranger.

[Silvana Siddali]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Well, my biggest fear when I first tried immersion was that I would sound like a bad Jane Austen movie. "What ho, Jeremiah, back from the wars?"

Elaine is quite right, though, once you get to know people, everything seems quite natural and conversations begin to flow. The time I accidentally threw broken glass into Mrs. Little's stew pot (and yes, it really was an accident) has been food for laughter ever since. No one will ever let me live that down, and there's no need for highfalutin' language.

Children also bring their own special brand of play to immersion. In fact I've learned more from watching kids play with each other (and they rarely mess up their first person) than I can say.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Here are some issues I imagine go through someone's mind when thinking about doing immersion:

1. I can't do this. I don't know enough about the 19th century.

Nobody at the event knows enough about the 19th century. But you know enough to get started. Attend an event armed with what you have - do some research about the time period being portrayed so you are familiar with the big issues that might have been discussed at the time - politics, major events or disasters etc. Most importantly, listen. If you don't think you know enough - speak to what you do know and listen when you're not sure. You know, not everybody in the 19th century sat around flapping their gums all the time.

2. I'm afraid I'll make a slip and say something modern and everyone will hold it against me or worse, tie me up and leave me in the sheep barn for the weekend.

Nobody will hold it against you. It happens. Usually if you make a slip you'll be greeted by one of several possibilities; everyone will pretend they didn't hear you and go on with whatever is happening, someone may give you a little look as if to say - whoops, get back on track, someone may clear their throat or such to bring your attention to the faux pax, ask you what you're talking about or someone may gently take you aside, break first person for a bit, and explain what you did wrong. Well, what happens after that - are you told to pack up, get out and never speak to anyone there again? No, everything just goes on like it was.

3. I really don't know what I can do during an immersion event. How do I keep busy?

Sleepy? Hey they did that the same way then as we do now so you've got about a third of the event down cold already! Got something you've been wanting to whittle? A knife that needs sharpening? Got some sewing to do or socks to mend? Sit on a porch and do it. Hey, you're doing a first person immersion activity. I think many people think this is some kind of rocket science. It's not. Interact with people, chat about the weather, talk about your family etc. Take part in life. Pretty much what you do every day. Before you know it, you're immersed and feeling comfortable.

4. What kind of role should I fill?

That's up to you. But pick something you have an interest in if you can. And, most importantly talk to other hobbyists, especially those that are organizing the event. What do they need? What is the premise for the event? Would a particular character fit in there or not? If all else fails, there's the everyday farmer, laborer, housewife. There were lots of those people and they were the heart of the community. Most folks were just regular people and not famous politicians, generals, business magnates etc.

5. I don't have everything I need in the way of clothes and equipment.

That's probably the easiest one to deal with. There are plenty of folks with stuff - lots of stuff - and they will be glad to loan you some of that stuff for the event, plus tell you how to best get your own bunch of stuff.

6. I think I'd like to try this but I'm not sure where to start.

Hence the reason for this thread. We have a group that does events at Independence Village in eastern Illinois. Some of the best living historians in the hobby will be there to portray regular people and bring this town to life. There are other places too that would lend themselves to such endeavors but I can't speak for them since I haven't attended things there - but they are out there and they are also spoken of on this forum. Anway, the next one is Memorial Day so you've got plenty of time to prepare don't you? If you want, one of our group will mentor you and be there to answer questions, help with preparation, give you leads on good sources to review and be there at the event to help you out when needed.

Hey, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain if you think you're interested. One caveat though - this is not for everybody. There are some fine living historians who are great at first person, but they don't necessarily want to do it all the time. They want to return to modernity in the evening for example and talk about modern stuff or go grab a modern bite to eat. If that is what you want to do, you would be best to not try this immersion stuff because we expect you to be "on" from the first time we see you in the morning until the last shank of the evening when you retire.

I will say this: in my own experience I have never had first person immersion better than what I have had at Independence Village and Westville. The scales are different but the quality is very similar. Everyone that attends is in sync in wanting to gain that period experience. Is it always perfect? No, there are slips now and then but it continues to get better and better. If this sounds like something you wish to try, do not hesitate to contact one of the Independence Village group or check out and join our Facebook group or Google group. You'll be glad you did.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

I have two friends from the mainstream side attending Westville with me this year. They were concerned about much of what has been said on this thread since they have never done this before. My explanation to them was along the lines of what Mike said. It seemed to relieve them that "we" that do this level of the hobby don't bite (usually) and that they CAN do this kind of event.

First, there must be the willingness there in the individual to do immersion events. Without that, there is NO hope for an open mind. Second, there must be the proper research beforehand and interest. From these two things, all else can be either bought or borrowed.

Find the interested, build their confidence slowly and go from there.

[Mutt]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Hi there,

I found that when I first got into doing first person and then eventually did it everyday at my job as a site interpreter, the more I thought and worried the worse I got! As I let myself be myself more, it became fluid. This was/is especially the case if I'm doing something, as has been mentioned already, even if it's nothing, or what we might think is "nothing" in today's terms. Sometimes people were just quiet. If you're a naturally quiet person trying to force yourself to talk when a visitor is near, without them first asking a question, can garner a similarly mannered responce as you may give to anyone at any time during your normal day.

I really enjoy those everyday things that make your impression and your time spent at immersion events all the better. Simple banter between "the guys" is a good one. The tricky thing there is being able to establish a rapport with others or going into an event having "buddies". Then you don't think twice about a harty pat on the back or wrestling match or good old ribbing.

Gotta run. Might post more later :)

Best,

[littlefarm]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Hi everyone,

I'm mostly a lurker on the forums I belong to - don't post very often, but I wanted to add my two cents here.

I've only been reenacting 4 or 5 years so I don't have the background & years of research and experience some reenactors have. I probably know less about the 19th century than anyone else at Independence Village (or the other events I've been too). These immersion events are what drew me to reenacting in the first place & I jumped right in with both feet before I had enough sense to be afraid of doing it wrong. And I've had my foot in my mouth more than once, but I can tell you from personal experience that no one will tar & feather you. I see it as a learning experience.

Most of us just spend our days doing regular household stuff. I like to cook & spend a lot of my time doing that. Sometimes I run next door & borrow something "I've run out of" (interpret that as "don't own" or "forgot to bring"). We visit each other, work in our gardens or flower bed if we have one, sew, etc. There is usually one community dinner or other activity where we all gather together. Very laid back but a lot of fun.

I know some immersion events are more scripted but that can be fun too.

Hope to see more people at Independence soon.

Linda (Lydia) Little

[Philip cav]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

First person can be as fun or scary as you make it. Well I said at the beginning of the year that I wanted to do more first person, got to do it 2 times so far this year. Will also get to do it about three more times. Just as long you are not "over acting", it will be very natural for you to do first person ounce you do it ounce or twice.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Hallo!

Two passing observations...

1. Sometimes, especially in the Beginnng, the easiest Firper is to strive to remain silent or quiet.

2. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Yes, I fully know and am aware of the anxiety and outright fear that folks can experience, real or imagined. But such Firper, Immersion, and even Time Warp is a journey over time, not an immediate arrival at destination. Not to bring up a worn cliche, but IMHO the longest joutrney can begin with just the first step. And that first step can be nothing more than showing up.

In my experience, I would say more people defeat themselves beforehand that are ever 'defeated' by it. My wife, who loved "Thirper," absolutely, undeniably, HATED anything Firper.

It is something, like any like or dislike, that is up to the individual one way or the other. But, it is hard to like swimming if one does not get wet at least once or twice.

:)

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Who will never be knighted for his Method Acting Mess :) :)

[Pvt. Shattuck]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Tomorrow morning I'm speaking to four 50 minute classes of HS Juniors studying the Civil War. My impression will be my ancestor who served in the 16th NYVI. The subject is a soldier's life and the Battle of Antietam. I am considering trying First Person but honestly terrified. I've done brief moments but never a sustained character improvisation. I don't know if I can pull it off.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Hallo!

"Firper" for talks or presentations, IMHO, can be the most challenging.

Not quite so much the subject matter or the base, but rather not all "audiences" are receptive or open to its presence. That can be particularly so for high school age and middle school aged kids who sometimes have "uncool" issues in front of their classmates if they seem interested.

And, very young children can be a challenge to as they can have a problem with dealing with issues of "reality" between a "real" CW soldier and the presentor being a real CW soldier.

Adults can be their own worst enemy as well. Meaning, if their expectation and expected level of "interaction"is interpreative or instructional- some awkwardly trip over the Firper and feel obliged to turn into comedians. Or worse yet, perhaps- feel obliged to bait and try to trip you up to "Break Character."
However, if they know in advance that the interpretation is first-person based, it can go a bit more smoothly and they can be more receptive.

"Adjusting" to the needs or the make-up of the audience is a skill that takes time to get a correct feel and empathy for.

In my presentations over the years, I went away from Firper for talks and presentations- and reserve it for myself or for interaction with like-minded pards who are on the same Page in regard to intent, content, and expectations fro "scenario specific" events/functions. Plus, if for no other reasons, a classroom or auditorium can be hard to create and mainstain a 1861-1865 Context. OR, at least, it requires more advanced skills and experience.

Curt

[Hank Trent]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Here's a minority view, and probably not a very popular one, but what the heck.

When I first started reenacting, I was told that the goal was to be as "authentic" as possible ("accurate," we'd probably say nowadays).

I assumed this applied to all parts of one's portrayal.

As time passed, I discovered there are other hobbies where the participants think their impressions are perfectly accurate, even though it looks to me like they're not even trying, because they think that certain parts of their impression don't count. Costumed docents at house museums, for example, will often wear modern shoes, modern glasses, and for women, modern makeup and modern hairstyles, while explaining how accurately they're dressed. They believe they can have an accurate impression while wearing modern glasses and sneakers, for example, because they believe the glasses and sneakers aren't part of the impression.

That never made sense to me, but whatever.

Reenactors--of the AC Forum level, at least--generally do think that glasses and shoes count. A person with blatantly modern glasses and sneakers wouldn't be considered to have a great impression, no matter how good the rest of his/her kit was.

That seemed logical to me.

So it always struck me as very strange that reenactors believe certain other things don't count. They can say blatantly modern things in the midst of an event, and I'm still supposed to think they have an accurate impression as long as their kit and their skills are great.

I just can't wrap my head around that. If an actor in a Civil War movie broke character and began talking about modern things, I'd assume it was meant to be a joke or a parody, because no director would ever let such an obvious slip get through, no matter how many little costuming errors he let get by. Yet most reenactors don't seem to even try to meet the basic, low standards of movie accuracy. That's only a special subset, called immersion, but otherwise, what one says doesn't count. I've never been able to figure out why. The usual excuse is to blame it on the public, but just wait until the public leaves for the day, and see if the accuracy increases. In most cases, it gets worse, not better.

I've rarely met any reenactor--even the ones at what could generously be called farb fests--who lacks the knowledge to do a perfectly acceptable first person impression. Yet at all accuracy level of kit, it seems that most just don't want to, the same way that one sees museum docents in excellent period dresses who just don't want to give up their modern makeup and hairstyles.

I just can't get the point of dressing up in strange clothes, and then continuing on as if you're not wearing them. Hasn't the awkward, self-conscious part already passed when one puts the funny clothes on and draws attention to how different and strange one looks? To me, the clothes and skills are just a means to an end, not the end in itself.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Pvt. Shattuck]

Re: Immersion: fun or scary?

Excellent point- if I'm wearing authentic period clothes, the appropriate character is expected by the audience, or why bother? Why couldn't the character be aware of and understand the modern world (classroom), but still be living in the nineteenth century? For example, use Power Point to project period images but refer to it as "the Magic Lantern?".
Recently I was giving a tour of the kitchens at Ft Clinch. A little girl asked "do you mean now now or back then now?" I had totally confused her.