Egg size and baking

[Jeremy Bevard]

I have been doing some cooking and baking from cookbooks that were published in the 1850's. Each custard or spoon bread type dish has come out with the egg flavor being very strong. Almost like scrambled eggs with a touch of other flavors. It seems something must be wrong. The latest was a dried peach custard pie which called for 3 eggs. It just didn't taste that great, the eggy custard at least. My thought is maybe eggs are bigger now so those 3 eggs are more like 3-1/2 to 4 in comparison to the quantity of the other ingredients. I was using cage free brown extra large but switched to large which was only in white. I cannot find medium at my store, if they exist. For those with more knowledge is this the problem? What is your way of overcoming this challenge?

[Tyler Underwood]

Re: Egg size and baking

Jeremy, that is correct. Egg's today are bigger than what they were 150 years ago. My wife is chef in real life and has done A LOT of period cooking for the two of us and others. I will have her get in touch with you and give you some more information.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Egg size and baking

From the New American Cyclopaedia, 1863

http://books.google.com/books?id=_at5UnyecxsC&pg=PA29

"A dozen of the largest [eggs] have been found to weigh 24 oz., while the same number of smaller ones of the same stock weighed only 14 1/2 oz. The fair average weight is said to be about 22 1/2 oz. to the dozen."

That looks like it would range from our modern "large" down to "peewee," with the average at "medium," which would be over 1.75 oz. and less than 2 oz. according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_egg_sizes

Some ways to approach the problem:

First, one can compare various period recipes for the same dish, if you can find it in other period cookbooks, to rule out a typo or a cook with an odd quirk such as hens that lay odd-sized eggs or a love or hatred of eggy flavor.. There are lots of period cookbooks at Google Books, which can be limited by date when searching.

Then try using the equivalent of medium eggs, which would be about three-quarters the number of "extra-large" modern eggs. That should help bring it toward a 19th century average.

But one thing to keep in mind is that a housewife who kept her own chickens, or bought eggs unsorted from someone who did, would be dealing with the same problem. Though a recipe might call for three eggs every time, she might be working with different sizes. It's my feeling that cooks were used to dealing with such things and were expected to use fewer very large eggs or more very small ones, and similarly with other things, which is why recipes will conclude with instructions something like "... and enough flour to make a stiff batter," to compensate for each persons teacups of milk and walnut-sized lumps of butter being a little different..

So, on the one hand, it's important to worry about precision when testing period recipes to make sure one isn't adapting everything to make it spicier, blander, firmer, softer, etc., to fit modern preconceptions.

But on the other hand, I think modern people too often approach cooking/baking from an 1890s Fanny Farmer mindset that each ingredient must be carefully measured. We were actually just discussing that on a food email list, so I'm going to cheat and quote myself from there yesterday :) :

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Here's a google books search, covering the whole 19th century,
for cupful measured level. Note how all the results cluster in the 1890s,
though google books has dozens of earlier cookbooks:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22measured+level%22&safe=off&tbs=bkv:p,cdr:1,cd_min:1800,cd_max:1899&tbm=bks&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=lAbwUqaLM-LiyAH6noGwCQ&ved=0CCEQpwUoAw&biw=1056&bih=587&dpr=1&cad=cbv&sei=mgbwUuyjOs3YyAGt64D4BA#q=cupful+%22measured+level%22+&safe=off&tbm=bks&tbs=bkv:p%2Ccdr:1%2Ccd_min:1800%2Ccd_max:1899

Teaspoon measured level produces a similar result:

https://www.google.com/search?q=measured+level+teaspoon&safe=off&tbs=bkv:p,cdr:1,cd_min:1800,cd_max:1899&tbm=bks&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=fgfwUreCGab7yAG3zoDwCw&ved=0CB8QpwUoAw&biw=1056&bih=587&dpr=1&cad=cbv&sei=hAfwUtnYMcOcyQGVo4F4#q=teaspoon+%22measured+level%22&safe=off&tbm=bks&tbs=bkv:p%2Ccdr:1%2Ccd_min:1800%2Ccd_max:1899

Something was happening in the 1890s in American cookbooks that hadn't happened before: precise volume measurements were being pushed as the norm. It wasn't just a cupful anymore, it was a precisely level cupful, and cooks who did things by handful and by eye were now promoted as old fashioned.

If it didn't change then, it had to change at some point. I've heard modern people say things like: Antebellum recipes aren't detailed enough to understand so they need translated for modern cooks, or, people in the old days used to cook with a handful of this and that unlike how we cook today. I've even heard people say that one can't bake cakes by eye and *must* use measurements, yet I know from experience that's not true.

When did the more casual style of cooking come to be considered old-fashioned, to the point that cooks started to have trouble following older recipes without translations? I'd propose that it was the Fanny Farmer era around the turn of the century.

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So I don't want to say, just adjust the ingredients until it tastes "right," because one needs to figure out what "right" would be to a typical 19th century person. But in this case it looks like there really is justification that the too-eggy flavor is due to the eggs being larger than the average would have been.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Little Jo]

Re: Egg size and baking

It seems to be a standard measurement between 1840-1865 in American cookbooks that 10 eggs equals 1 pound.

I am a baker and for period recipes I use weight versus volume.

[fahtz]

Re: Egg size and baking

Somewhere there is a paper for one of our academic friends in all of this. Digging through the heritage breed chicken and duck catalog on my table here, I find most chickens to be laying small-medium eggs but there are some large layers like the Plymouth Rock chicken noted to our period of research.

My suggestion is to go out and get some free range eggs from one of the backyard/small farmers. The idea of raising your own flock is on the rise, and eggs are becoming easier to find in remote areas.

[Utley]

Re: Egg size and baking

I have Dominiques and White Rocks, both heritage breeds, and the Dominiques lay much larger eggs than the White Rocks. Of course mine get good natural feed daily and that could or could not be the case for chickens in the 19th century. However, since my feed is natural and not medicated, the results are not going to be extremely different from what was around back then. Most of the eggs the White Rocks lay are almost 1/2 the size, volume wise, of the Dominiques. Several of the Dominuqes eggs are double yolked. Age has alot to do with it as well, so I would estimate that the bakers of that time were skilled and knowing how to adjust the recipe based on the size of the egg that they were dealing with.

[AndrewGrim]

Re: Egg size and baking

Your problem may not be egg size. If you are mixing the eggs into an already hot cream mix the eggs might be cooking before you get them mixed. If that is the case try tempering the eggs in, put a small amount of the hot liquid in with the eggs to slowly warm them up. Then mix that back into the main liquid.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Egg size and baking

Medium eggs do indeed exist, though you might not find them at high-end stores. Kroger's, Wal-Mart and warehouse-type stores have them. I have found them very useful in recreating old recipes. It also helped one family who couldn't get their grandmother's recipe right because it called for "two of (hen's name)'s eggs." An old picture revealed her to be very small, perhaps a bantam. they used the smallest eggs from a dozen medium and succeded.

I have found it useful to keep an old, but not terribly valuable and certainly not delicate, teacup around for measuring. While I learned to cook by handfuls, I'll still measure if it's a new recipe or something modern and boxed. One other useful strategy is to measure dry ingredients into your cupped hand until you're used to the appearance of a teaspoon of salt or a tablespoon of soda. Being able to do that reduces the amount of dishes used in food preparation, which would have been important in the days of no running water or easy refill of a dishpan.

[Katie-Renee]

Re: Egg size and baking

As a chef in modern life and a baker/cook doing period recipes I always weigh ingredients. There are many period references to how much common measurements weigh. Even with modern baking everything is done on weight as baking is more precise. There are medium sized eggs, unfortunately they are not sold in common stores you will have to find a specialty store. If you find a local farmer he might be able to supply you with smaller eggs. Another option in terms of their size is quail eggs. I hope this helps.

[Little Jo]

Re: Egg size and baking

Weights and measure charts from 1840-1865

https://www.google.com/search?authuser=0&tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22weights+and+measures%22+subject:%22cookery%22&tbs=,bkv:f,cdr:1,cd_min:Jan+1_2+1840,cd_max:Dec+31_2+1865&num=50

I also agree with Andrew that improper tempering may also be issue.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Egg size and baking

Sounds crazy, but I will say it: Hormones in eggs? Modern chickens with hormones that laid them???

Jus throwing that out there for the group to consider.

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: Egg size and baking

Thank you for all the info. I knew I wasn't going to get an easy solution but confirmed my assumptions. Need to find some medium eggs or better a source for fresh farm eggs of smaller size in my area.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Egg size and baking

If you have a farmers' market nearby, stop by one of the egg vendors and explain what you need and why. A lot of the time, they're bringing their nicest, largest eggs to market and using the small ones themselves.