Mens Socks

[AngelaG]

I am knitting period socks and I bought 2 period sock knitting patterns off the internet. The pattern though looks different from what I've normally seen. I tend to picture basically what you see on sutlers' pages: about a 5-6" cuff which is ribbed completely, looking like a normal sock. But the patterns I have show a 3" cuff on a 7" leg with a seam down the back of the leg. My question is which one sounds more authentic to you because I'm used to seeing the first type but both of these patterns look like the second type. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

[Spinster]

Re: Mens Socks

There were quite a wide range of sock styles in the period, from coarse to very fine. Some had portions done by machine, but many many more were hand knitted.

Look to the gauge or needle size first to determine the authenticity of your pattern--- if its calling for a size 0000 up to a 3, you are in the right ball park, and the smaller the better. Same thing on yarn size--if its calling for fingering weight, then its leaning towards more common patterns of the period. Often sutler socks are made of worsted weight and are very coarse socks--certainly there were some during the period, and these heavy socks will warm a soldier's feet, then and now. They were not nearly as common as very finely knit socks of small yarn with small needles.

The "seam down the back of the leg" is a seam (or purl) stitch, not a sewn together seam. This stitch was used to aid the knitter in marking her place, centering decreases in pattern, and in centering heel flaps. In my opinion, this stitch is one of the best hallmarks of a correct sock. It also seems to be one of those "common knowledge of the period" sort of things--you were just supposed to know to do it.

Working with these very small yarns and needles is a true learning experience--I'm certainly still struggling with this process, and intend to apply myself this summer to the point were I can claim a good start on finely knitted socks.

[KarinTimour]

Re: Mens Socks

Dear Angela:

Welcome to the ranks of the sock makers! This is one of the most period authentic things to learn to do -- women did it everywhere and anywhere (even church sometimes).

I'd agree with Mrs. Larson's points about the purl stitch down the back of the leg. Depending on the sock heel you are making, you HAVE to know exactly where the true center back is.

Ribbing -- I've never seen any documentation or surviving originals that were ribbed to the ankle -- usually it's anywhere from 1/2 inch of ribbing to 3 1/2 inch of ribbing, depending on the sock. Never seen more than that -- then stockingette stitch to the ankle (which is how it got it's name -- as the stitch that was used to make stockings and socks), with the one purl stitch centered at the back of the leg.

Best of luck and let us know how you're getting on and if you need more help.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
"The Stories in the Socks" National Conference on Women and the Civil War, Richmond, Virginia, June, 2004
Period Knitting -- Socks, Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[markj]

Re: Mens Socks

Greetings,

See attachments below.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[KarinTimour]

Re: Mens Socks

Dear MarK:

Ok, ok, I should learn never to say never. From the directions it does look as though that is a sock that is ribbed to the ankle. I don't know that I'd recommend this pattern for a beginning sock knitter, however, as it is knit on a number 18 needle -- in modern sizes this is a 000000000 needle. You have to cast on 38 stitches on three needles, which is 108 stitches per sock.

Frankly, I don't think you can buy needles this small in knitting stores -- the smallest I've seen is a 000000 needle for lace knitting. You might could find them in antique stores, though, I've picked up quite a few extremely thin needles there.

But does seem to be documentation of a sock that is ribbed all the way to the ankle. To put it in perspective, I've seen about 14 written patterns for socks, and probably in the area of 20-25 original socks with good provenance. This is the first period sock pattern or original I've seen with ribbing to the ankle. I wouldn't consider it "plain, ordinary, common."

Having said that, I'm living in anticipation of Mark pulling another 15 patterns with ribbing to the ankles out of his archives!

Keep them coming!

Karin Timour
"Stores in the Socks" National Conference on Women in the Civil War, Richmond, Virginia, June 2004
Period Knitting -- Socks, Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

See attachments below.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger[/QUOTE]

[Spinster]

Re: speaking of which

Speaking of which,

The Army of Tennessee sock is just giving me fits---I just don't understand the heel turn directions--Karin, could you please translate before I go batty--Susan is sitting besides a sickbed, bored with the same old pattern, and is demanding a new period sock pattern to occupy her hands whilst she watches her dear father sleep. And I'm reeling endless yards of fingering yarn into dye skeins....

Thanks to Mark for the ribbed pattern--I've been struggling with the concept myself, as the socks with short ribbed cuffs don't seem to stay up as well. Still, its back to the concept of what was common, not the exception.

[MrsArmstrong]

Re: speaking of which

[QUOTE=Spinster]Speaking of which,

The Army of Tennessee sock is just giving me fits---I just don't understand the heel turn directions--Karin, could you please translate before I go batty--Susan is sitting besides a sickbed, bored with the same old pattern, and is demanding a new period sock pattern to occupy her hands whilst she watches her dear father sleep. And I'm reeling endless yards of fingering yarn into dye skeins....


Maybe I may be of help, Karin got me through this sock.
You should have the "inside" of the heel facing you, pearl to the center (seam) stitch then knit the seamed stitch.
Fold the two together (rightside to rightside)
Slip the first stitch (which was the knitted (seam) stitch), knit the next, slip the first stitch over and continue doing the three needle bind off.
Love this sock and have done a dozen. How much $ for enough fingering wool to do a pair :D
Susan Armstrong

[MrsArmstrong]

Re: Mens Socks

FYI....if you get through the AOT sock, another pattern that I found nice for "ladies", is in Knit, Net, Crochet, and More. It is the Night Sock from Godey's 1860. It is very similar in directions to the AOT sock except much shorter. It is a night sock with the ribbing that would have been folded over, and looks like an anklet, and worn to keep your feet warm I guess when in bed. It makes up quick and is for the ladies :D I used fingering and 00 pins.
Susan Armstrong

[Spinster]

Re: Mens Socks

Love this sock and have done a dozen. How much $ for enough fingering wool to do a pair
Susan Armstrong

I'm clueless--first we've got to actually make a pair that passes muster, and then figure out how much yarn it took....I figure we'll know that, and be satisfied with our methodology and sizing by early fall, enough to package these up in kits by the Battle of Franklin.

Thankfully, Susan Morris is a faster knitter than I am--another good reason why I'm "research and development" and she is "production"

Gracious--if I can just get through the end of tax season, leave for the Hunley, return and go to Selma for school days, I think I might live to knit another sock on my peaceful veranda (okay, its a pollen covered front porch on a city street with tentage stacked on it, but I can pretend)

[Canton Zouave]

Re: Mens Socks

Karin,

Can you post or pass on a conversion chart for reference for Period to Modern needle sizes. I can then pass this along to my knitter.

Respectfully,

[KarinTimour]

Re: Mens Socks

Dear Todd:

Here's a pretty good one:

https://www.fibergypsy.com/common/needles.shtml

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
"The stories in the Socks" Women and the Civil War Conference, Richmond, Virginia, June 2004
Period Knitting -- Socks, Camp Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: ktimour@aol.com

[Canton Zouave]

Re: Mens Socks

Karin,

Thank You. That shall be a big help.

Respectfully,

[td13]

Re: Mens Socks

Were all men's socks knitted or were they also crocheted? If they were also crocheted does anybody have a pattern they would like to share?

[Spinster]

Re: Mens Socks

Were all men's socks knitted or were they also crocheted? If they were also crocheted does anybody have a pattern they would like to share?

I've not seen a period crochet sock pattern in anything other than a decorative bootie for a child--but modern experience tells my why that is likely the case. When one knits, one produces "loops" of yarn, interlocked with other loops. When one crochets, what is produced is a series of slip knots, often quite dense. Having run up one of those modern crochet sock patterns--it fit well enough, but in the end, I walked on knots, not springy loops. Been there, done that, and certainly would not want to walk any distance in them....

[td13]

Re: Mens Socks

Thank you Mrs. Lawson. I just recently learned to crochet and I was hoping that just maybe. But alas it looks like I may also have to learn to knit. I do definately see your point about walking on knots, I can see the blisters on this poor foot soldiers feet. Thank you for opening my eyes.