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Experimenting again, please bear with me:
Here's another thread from the old forum, with Pictures and links.
Authentic Shovels and axes
orngblsm
Authentic Shovels and axes Gentlemen,
Was wondering if anyone knew of and sources that sold authentically reproduced shovels, picks, axes, etc.
Thanks__________________Ryan McIntyre, Pvt.-124th NYSV"The Orange Blossoms"
September 8th, 2003 12:41 PM
Bill Cross
period shovels widely available
A period shovel is probably obtainable for the same or less than what a decent reproduction would cost. I purchased a very solid "D" handle shovel off ebay several years ago for less than $30 with shipping. You wouldn't find anyone who could make something that good for that price nowadays.Hank Trent reports period shovels at "dirt" cheap prices available in antique barns, etc. in rural Ohio where he lives. I have seen them upstate NY, usually neglected and wanting a good home.__________________
Bill Crosswcross@BSLG.com
September 8th, 2003 03:09 PM
Johan Steele
They are available in almost any farm sale throughout the Midwest... hatchets, shovels and such haven't changed that dramatically in the years since the civil war. I was told by a reputable tool collector that a good hand axe for the Civil War era is almost no different than a wooden handled one you might buy at ACE hardware today... just make sure all the paint is gone...I paid $7 for my shovel and pulled my hand axe out of a barn I was helping reside... got paid to take it I might add.__________________
When we charge the gates of Heaven I've got point.Shane Christen
September 8th, 2003 05:50 PM
PogueMahone
Not all shovels were "D-handle" styles. Many were just like the ones you buy today with a long straight pole. The primary difference being how the shovel blade attaches to the handle. Don't let anyone make you think you have to have a D-handle or nothing at all.__________________
Joe Smotherman
Omnia mea mecum porto - Cicero
"To reduce weight on the march, we threw away our souls, as we saw no particular use for them in the near future..." – Tim Prince
September 8th, 2003 06:37 PM
Hank Trent
What Joe said. If the handle was short enough to put your hand on the back of it while working, it had the D. If the handle was full length, it didn't. The typical blade attachment was two straps, front and back, riveted through the handle.The most common other variations you see in old shovels/spades today are the wrap-around attachment where the top of the blade is formed into a socket for the handle, and the Y handle. I suspect that both variations existed somewhere in the 1860s, but I've not yet run across evidence of them. Don't know if anyone else has.Hank Trenthanktrent@voyager.ne__________________
September 8th, 2003 09:13 PM
PogueMahone
Hank,We have a very old blacksmith-made square-bladed shovel (scoop) that has a very similar kind of neck to the modern that wraps around the pole, and is held in place with a nail. I've used it to scoop up trash (nothing heavy!!) and it was not the least bit loose.Don't know how old it really is, though. Got it at a yardsale ...__________________
Joe SmothermanOmnia mea mecum porto - Cicero"To reduce weight on the march, we threw away our souls, as we saw no particular use for them in the near future..." – Tim Prince
September 8th, 2003 10:14 PM
Bill Cross
document, document! Joe, Hank,John Stillwagon's gonna be on you both like white on rice. Where is your documentation?
Hank Trent: "I suspect that both variations existed somewhere in the 1860s, but I've not yet run across evidence of them."Joe Smotherman: "Don't know how old it really is, though. Got it at a yardsale ..."Oh, the humanity! Next you'll be telling me that the K-Mart Martha Stewart garden shovel will do. __________________Bill Crosswcross@BSLG.com
September 9th, 2003 08:11 AM
jimmayo
Examples Got some pictures and dug examples of shovels on the following page. http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/tools/tools.html
__________________Jim MayoPortsmouth Rifles
September 9th, 2003 08:19 AM
Amtmann
Russel and Erwin Catalogue 1865 "The typical blade attachment was two straps, front and back, riveted through the handle."Wouldn't "PLAIN BACK" refer to only a strap on the front and "STRAPPED BACK" mean one front and back?Amtmann has attached this image:
[IMG]Period Shovel.jpg[/IMG]
__________________
Rick BaileyLast edited by Amtmann on September 9th, 2003 at 03:00 PMReport this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
Amtmann
Amtmann has attached this image:
[IMG]Period axes.jpg[/IMG]
__________________Rick Bailey
September 9th, 2003 02:53 PM
Hank Trent
Note that those images also show the "Y" handle on a couple of the spades, so there's now documentation that it existed in the period. The Y handle is a style that's more common in antique/junk stores than the D handle, in my experience. I've never seen the plain back kind in an antique store. Maybe they were less durable, or older, and so didn't survive, while the two-strap kind continued to be made longer and lasted longer as well?Hank Trenthanktrent@voyager.net_____
September 9th, 2003 04:56 PM
PogueMahone
Thanks, Rick! Nothing like some timeframe correct images to reference!__________________
Joe SmothermanOmnia mea mecum porto - Cicero"To reduce weight on the march, we threw away our souls, as we saw no particular use for them in the near future..." – Tim Prince
September 9th, 2003 05:36 PM
Amtmann
Maybe...
Maybe we should put this in "The Vault" for future reference? __________________Rick Bailey
September 10th, 2003 07:54 AM
hireddutchcutthroat
I have seen many "campaigners" recently with WW2 period Swedish shovels. Please do not destroy history!____________
Robert Johnson
September 12th, 2003 03:15 AM
Here's another thread from the old forum, with Pictures and links.
Authentic Shovels and axes
orngblsm
Authentic Shovels and axes Gentlemen,
Was wondering if anyone knew of and sources that sold authentically reproduced shovels, picks, axes, etc.
Thanks__________________Ryan McIntyre, Pvt.-124th NYSV"The Orange Blossoms"
September 8th, 2003 12:41 PM
Bill Cross
period shovels widely available
A period shovel is probably obtainable for the same or less than what a decent reproduction would cost. I purchased a very solid "D" handle shovel off ebay several years ago for less than $30 with shipping. You wouldn't find anyone who could make something that good for that price nowadays.Hank Trent reports period shovels at "dirt" cheap prices available in antique barns, etc. in rural Ohio where he lives. I have seen them upstate NY, usually neglected and wanting a good home.__________________
Bill Crosswcross@BSLG.com
September 8th, 2003 03:09 PM
Johan Steele
They are available in almost any farm sale throughout the Midwest... hatchets, shovels and such haven't changed that dramatically in the years since the civil war. I was told by a reputable tool collector that a good hand axe for the Civil War era is almost no different than a wooden handled one you might buy at ACE hardware today... just make sure all the paint is gone...I paid $7 for my shovel and pulled my hand axe out of a barn I was helping reside... got paid to take it I might add.__________________
When we charge the gates of Heaven I've got point.Shane Christen
September 8th, 2003 05:50 PM
PogueMahone
Not all shovels were "D-handle" styles. Many were just like the ones you buy today with a long straight pole. The primary difference being how the shovel blade attaches to the handle. Don't let anyone make you think you have to have a D-handle or nothing at all.__________________
Joe Smotherman
Omnia mea mecum porto - Cicero
"To reduce weight on the march, we threw away our souls, as we saw no particular use for them in the near future..." – Tim Prince
September 8th, 2003 06:37 PM
Hank Trent
What Joe said. If the handle was short enough to put your hand on the back of it while working, it had the D. If the handle was full length, it didn't. The typical blade attachment was two straps, front and back, riveted through the handle.The most common other variations you see in old shovels/spades today are the wrap-around attachment where the top of the blade is formed into a socket for the handle, and the Y handle. I suspect that both variations existed somewhere in the 1860s, but I've not yet run across evidence of them. Don't know if anyone else has.Hank Trenthanktrent@voyager.ne__________________
September 8th, 2003 09:13 PM
PogueMahone
Hank,We have a very old blacksmith-made square-bladed shovel (scoop) that has a very similar kind of neck to the modern that wraps around the pole, and is held in place with a nail. I've used it to scoop up trash (nothing heavy!!) and it was not the least bit loose.Don't know how old it really is, though. Got it at a yardsale ...__________________
Joe SmothermanOmnia mea mecum porto - Cicero"To reduce weight on the march, we threw away our souls, as we saw no particular use for them in the near future..." – Tim Prince
September 8th, 2003 10:14 PM
Bill Cross
document, document! Joe, Hank,John Stillwagon's gonna be on you both like white on rice. Where is your documentation?
Hank Trent: "I suspect that both variations existed somewhere in the 1860s, but I've not yet run across evidence of them."Joe Smotherman: "Don't know how old it really is, though. Got it at a yardsale ..."Oh, the humanity! Next you'll be telling me that the K-Mart Martha Stewart garden shovel will do. __________________Bill Crosswcross@BSLG.com
September 9th, 2003 08:11 AM
jimmayo
Examples Got some pictures and dug examples of shovels on the following page. http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/tools/tools.html
__________________Jim MayoPortsmouth Rifles
September 9th, 2003 08:19 AM
Amtmann
Russel and Erwin Catalogue 1865 "The typical blade attachment was two straps, front and back, riveted through the handle."Wouldn't "PLAIN BACK" refer to only a strap on the front and "STRAPPED BACK" mean one front and back?Amtmann has attached this image:
[IMG]Period Shovel.jpg[/IMG]
__________________
Rick BaileyLast edited by Amtmann on September 9th, 2003 at 03:00 PMReport this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
Amtmann
Amtmann has attached this image:
[IMG]Period axes.jpg[/IMG]
__________________Rick Bailey
September 9th, 2003 02:53 PM
Hank Trent
Note that those images also show the "Y" handle on a couple of the spades, so there's now documentation that it existed in the period. The Y handle is a style that's more common in antique/junk stores than the D handle, in my experience. I've never seen the plain back kind in an antique store. Maybe they were less durable, or older, and so didn't survive, while the two-strap kind continued to be made longer and lasted longer as well?Hank Trenthanktrent@voyager.net_____
September 9th, 2003 04:56 PM
PogueMahone
Thanks, Rick! Nothing like some timeframe correct images to reference!__________________
Joe SmothermanOmnia mea mecum porto - Cicero"To reduce weight on the march, we threw away our souls, as we saw no particular use for them in the near future..." – Tim Prince
September 9th, 2003 05:36 PM
Amtmann
Maybe...
Maybe we should put this in "The Vault" for future reference? __________________Rick Bailey
September 10th, 2003 07:54 AM
hireddutchcutthroat
I have seen many "campaigners" recently with WW2 period Swedish shovels. Please do not destroy history!____________
Robert Johnson
September 12th, 2003 03:15 AM
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