Bleeding Kansas Event

[ElizabethClark]

The recent cancellation of this event has sparked my interest: what caused the holdup in citizen participation and registration?

It's hard for event organizers to offer more accurate citizen event scenarios if they are unable to get feedback on what works, and what doesn't, and if we can't support their efforts, they'll stop trying (which would be unfortunate.)

I know the only thing that stopped me from registering is a three to four day drive each way, two kids, and business commitments... but those things can be worked around on my end.

Any thoughts on how to get the word out on upcoming events for citizens, and support the good intentions of new organizing?

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

The recent cancellation of this event has sparked my interest: what caused the holdup in citizen participation and registration?

It's hard for event organizers to offer more accurate citizen event scenarios if they are unable to get feedback on what works, and what doesn't, and if we can't support their efforts, they'll stop trying (which would be unfortunate.)


Any thoughts on how to get the word out on upcoming events for citizens, and support the good intentions of new organizing?

Elizabeth
I'll try to pen this without the satrical bite from my own frustration and discouragement any detected are not intended.

Back when we planned this there was a long delay waiting to get a few final ok's with event insurance and event site. We expected the "flood gates" to open and figured with the demand for Civilian events we would get 75 people to show up easy - 50 was a worse case scenario. With the unique opportunity to do something a little different we thought people would flock to Kansas. We had visions of horses, wagons rations being bought from a general store, a wet plate colodian, an authentic tent city, and a large unruly mob of ruffians.

Well February and March Went by with only 2 of us registering. The "flood" turned out to be a "trickle". The Event sponsors began to panic and saw potential to lose a lot of money. After all rations and stuff was to be part of the deal and no one wanted to get stuck with a large bill for smoked bacon. April came and went with only 15 registrations as of April 26. The call went out yet few registrations came in. The side show at Clinton Lake that was supposed to outdo the main attaction in Lawrance was begining to fade fast with so little support. There was no way this could be pulled off accurately with only 15 people.

There are probably a few things that we could have done differently. Maybe we could have opened registration sooner. Or maybe signing on to the Yahoo groups proved to be too much of a hassle. We are all in effect volunteers working out of a labor of love to the hobby. It was a lot cheaper to set up websites than it was to mail out registration and guidelines (I was not even willing to do that). On my part other obligations got in the way. I figured this event would take care of itself because everyone seemed to want an event for the civilians I mean hear was the big chance to actually have one. Aside from the factors on our end, the information was out there and lots of people knew about it. Ultimately it was the lack of registration that killed it. Deadlines are deadlines and we all have that tendency to procrastinate. If you want a civilan event you really ought to support the next one that comes around-That is if you really want to have one. With the declaration that "the civilains have so few events and the military treats civilians like scum," its not like the civilians have an overwhelming control over their destiny. I expected a lot more.

Another factor might have been that the event was to be in Kansas. That was a bit too far west for a lot of people I suppose. We wanted to be among the first to try something different and believed people would be willing to make the trip for that reason. We figured this would get a lot of young men (and women) to head west and that is just the support we were counting on to make it happen. In the end the event sponsors got discouraged and quit just as you put it.

I'm sorry this event got cancelled it sounded so promising and cool back when we planned it.

Frank Aufmuth
(One of the perpetrators)

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

Frank, is there any chance of resurrecting the event idea at another time? Or has the site soured on it, with the cancellation?

I understand the frustration--I've had it on a different angle, trying to work with a site admin person up here who got seduced by a "Battle & Ball" Californian (no offense to progressive Californians on the forum)... and ultimately the great event idea is going to be postponed a year, and moved to a different location (which may turn out for the best, after all.)

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

Elizabeth
To answer your question it is very unlikely it will be resurrected. For one this was the 150 year big celebration this was the key year and this was a year of peak interest. This also means this is the year that people are willing to tackle the "S" word (Slavery). This was the year of opportunity but I'm afraid the opportunity has passed unless you want to organize a company for the Oregon trail.

This event cancellation has also effected another civilian centered event. Since bleeding Kansas didn't work out. The same organizers are giving the General Order #11 event another look. We had planned that one for Labor Day weekend next year. Whether or not that happens will need to be revisited. Presently it doesn't look good the key organizers are pretty discouraged.

General Order #11 is when General Ewing ordered all civilians along the Kansas border to vacate their homes because many of them were aiding bushwackers. They were harassed by the military being subjected to searches and such as they were escorted out of their counties and pushed south. The only thing that would get me out of my shell is 100 e-mails pledging support for the event and the guidelines that go with it. It would take one company of Infantry, some federal cavalry, a few (and I mean very few hand picked guerillas and I know who I want already) and a ton of civilians. It would take place on a long dirt road and would require the same time and attention as a large event. Then again who would show up to an event to go on a long 5+ mile march with all their belongings, farm animals and be abused by soldiers on the way? This will never happen because it's unrealistic but get me 100 e-mails and we'll talk.

We have the venues here for civilians but we lack the numbers to pull this stuff off by ourselves and I think bridges have been burnt.

Frank Aufmuth

[Michael Comer]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

I, for one, would be very interested in the Order #11 event. I was very interested in the Bleeding Kansas one and had the registration form on my desk for quite a while but the calendar just never worked out for me to be able to attend.

I do hope there are future attempts to get a good quality "Border War" event going.

[tmdreb]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

Frank,

I know it's not worth a hill of beans, but I would have signed up if I was not informed that I was not allowed to go to Kansas the weekend after we got back from the honeymoon.

[KarinTimour]

Civilian Email #1 of 100

Dear Frank:

Did someone say something about a five mile march? With animals, guerillas, harrassment by the troops?

First of all, I'm very sorry to hear that the Kansas event was a wash. I knew that the timing on that one wouldn't support a trip to Kansas for me.

But I've been planning to attend the Order #11 event for several years now -- I remember when it first was proposed, I don't remember by whom, and then that fell through, then I heard it was on offer fro 2005.

So this is my formal acknowledgement that if you build it, I will be there. I know there are other civilians who are planning to go as well -- but I don't know that they know that their opportunity is about to be blown if they don't send you an email.

Have my hands full for this weekend, but will do my best to get the word out and we'll see how many emails we can generate in the next few weeks.

Count this as #1 of 100.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting - Socks, Camp Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[LindaTrent]

Why?

I know that one thing that held me back was the lack of knowing what exactly the event staff wanted out of the civilians. I know it wasn't immersion because there were going to be tourists, but was it going to have an authentic demonstration camp, or was it going to be semi-immersion like McDowell and Burkittsville? If the latter, what kind of guidelines were in place to maintain the authentic atmosphere, and how were the guidelines to be enforced? I personally feared the former when a schedule of events arrived that mentioned "ongoing demonstrations."

I don't mean for this post to be critical, though I'm sure it sounds that way. It's just my reasoning for not attending BK and perhaps it can help #11 be a success! I do applaude the amount of documents that were sent out telling what Kansas was like at the time and all, that was wonderful, and certainly not lacking. But I think what is needed is more precise information about what the organizers want the event to be how they're going to enforce their vision, and what the rules of engagement are.

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net

[M_Kupsch]

Re: Why?

Linda,

To tell us now that you needed more information after the event had to be cancelled does us no good. If you found the event guidelines lacking, then you should have spoken up and posted your concerns on the Yahoo page established for this event. Your need for clarification and asking for such might have been enough to set straight others and enoucraged them to register.

I was one of the individuals that helped plan this event. A lot of time and engery getting donated resources (ie firewood, land, port-a-potties, hay for horses, etc) and logistical planning went into this event.

Bottom line, if you don't have enough information and need more, then ask for it and don't always think it needs to be spoon fed. To say you did not register because you had concerns is weak, considering you took time to tell us our short comings in getting out information. Possibly you should have spent some time asking us to address your concerns instead of sitting back and waiting until we had to cancel the event.

I know that one thing that held me back was the lack of knowing what exactly the event staff wanted out of the civilians. I know it wasn't immersion because there were going to be tourists, but was it going to have an authentic demonstration camp, or was it going to be semi-immersion like McDowell and Burkittsville? If the latter, what kind of guidelines were in place to maintain the authentic atmosphere, and how were the guidelines to be enforced? I personally feared the former when a schedule of events arrived that mentioned "ongoing demonstrations."

I don't mean for this post to be critical, though I'm sure it sounds that way. It's just my reasoning for not attending BK and perhaps it can help #11 be a success! I do applaude the amount of documents that were sent out telling what Kansas was like at the time and all, that was wonderful, and certainly not lacking. But I think what is needed is more precise information about what the organizers want the event to be how they're going to enforce their vision, and what the rules of engagement are.

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

All,
In my opinion, there is no time to be concerned about lashing out at people or discussing the quirks. Instead, listen to the concerns of potential participants and event organizers as we gear up for the future. If authentic civilians are to get to Missouri/Kansas area, we're going to have to stick together, not pull apart. And with the lack of great amounts of authentic civilians in the Missouri/Kansas area I think it would be wise to not go after potential participants, because most people will be travelling to the event versus being in a couple hundred mile radius of the event.

The next thing that is to be organized is the Order #11 event next September. If you are interested in it, then the info has been stated and is being passed around the net via e-mail to fight for the event.

I, personally believe that having these events would be fun and different. However, due to my own work schedule (which isn't always your typical schedule) and school, etc. I can't just hop on a flight to Kansas City or Springfield or wherever there is an airport out there. June isn't a great time for me to just say "Yeah, going to an event, need four-five days off." So I couldn't attend Bleeding Kansas. Nonetheless, I hope I will be able to attend the Order #11 event.

I cannot say lets unfocus from Bleeding Kansas and what happened, but let's take the comments/thoughts/complaints/concerns that may arise and turn them into positive for Order #11. Boo hiss to Ewing!!

[LindaTrent]

Re: Why?

To tell us now that you needed more information after the event had to be cancelled does us no good.

Actually, I thought there was some concern about Order #11, and so I thought I would express my reasons for not attending BK, in hopes that it would help in some way with future events. This wasn't an attack on the organizers of BK, but an honest reason as to why I didn't attend the event. The original question was, "how {can we} get the word out on upcoming events for citizens, and support the good intentions of new organizing?
And that's what I was trying to do, express what event organizers can do differently.

If you found the event guidelines lacking, then you should have spoken up and posted your concerns on the Yahoo page established for this event.

True, however, we already had contacted Frank about the event earlier. Hank asked him about such things as:

what authenticity standards will be enforced (inspections, whether "hidden" modern stuff is okay; whether first person is required, recommended or discouraged; whether there are different standards for daytime and after hours, etc.). ... so I can plan travel from here in Ohio, etc.

He was told that the guidelines would be out shortly after Xmas... At a time when civilians were being reprimanded for making waves, we decided that the guidelines would be up soon anyway, so why continue to ask such detailed questions?

Having been overall organizer for an event I know how much work goes into an event, and I respect that. I didn't continue to ask for multiple reasons, not the least being that no one else was asking either, and I know that we're seen as being a bit pushy when it comes to guidelines :wink_smil

As I said, this wasn't meant to be a criticism, but was meant as a suggestion as to how we can better get word out to prospective participants about the really cool events that are in the making, like Order #11. I'm sorry if you took it as a criticism.

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

And here I thought the concern was over the lack of a schedule!

Have gone through it with him I can totally see where Mike's coming from. We're out here trying to turn heads but all we seem to see is a lot of "wait and see."

I remember getting those questions from Hank but figured the concept of building a town would be enough and that the main concern was over material culture. Maybe I should have said more like build a town, bring an imagination and your 1850's political sentiments for the speeches, and elections and such. Since there wasn't going to be a battle "rules of engagement" never crossed my mind. I figured the worse that could happen would be a shouting match.

If we go forward with #11
here's my unofficial version of the rules of engagement.
Granted the civilian side is new to me since I usually do military.

1) Once the march starts we go total immersion.
2) Women will be harassed your stuff will be gone through-some items possibly confiscated by rude condescending federal soldiers who are sick and tired of chasing guerellas.
3) People were hit, shot, and generally slapped around - avoid physical contact
4) The only thing for sure will be the road in front of you. Uncertainty would await around every bend.
5) If you come we want you to be scared
6) Clothing guidelines will be enforced so look the part.
7) What if we established a code (such as coughing) if the perpetrators go too far?
8) there will be no battle but shooting will occur don't be stupid with the muzzle.

It's important also to know if there is truly a widespread intrest before we get into this this is why I came up with the pledge e-mails. Otherwise once again not having a large populace for the soldiers to harrass would not work. I can't help but wonder if we burnt bridges by stiking out on the Bleeding Kansas event. The only way we will ever be able to pull off a sizeable authentic event is by getting people to cross the river. We simply lack the manpower to have our own events.

I'm all for opening up the dialogue. I'm even willing to field the questons and try to make as many people happy as I can. Just understand much of what we want to do rests in the element of surprise. Also be aware us people across the Mississippi like to socialize (we don't get out much) so don't be too taken aback if we want to get to know you once you get to the event. But once things get going you won't like me much because I want to take your applejack.

Before I say too much I need to check in with the rest of the committee.
Frank Aufmuth

[TeamsterPhil]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

Frank,

Consider yourself checked in with me. I didn't take as active a role in BK as I would have preferred due to a massive reorganization at work. But having a small amount of experience in the civilian world, I will volunteer in any capacity that I am needed.

Since we've gotten the land lined up, it would be a shame to not use it.

Phil Campbell

[Augusta Carr]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

I for one would be willing to commit to the event and am sure I might be able to get some folks my way to travel with us as well.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Bleeding Kansas Event

Well, here's my two cents worth. Order No. 11 sounds really good, in the formative stages. As somebody closer to eastern and, um, "western," events (meaning Kentucky/ Tennessee/Georgia), I'll tell you my thought process for deciding whether to make the gamble on a trip to the far west. I know, the people in California and Idaho are snickering about Kansas being "far west." But...

"Once the march starts we go total immersion." Showing my ignorance, how long is that in hours? Since the march is only five miles, we could be talking two hours, or two days if there are enough delays. :) It would definitely entice me to come if the immersion period was as long as possible, preferably at least Friday night through Sunday morning, with no breaks. Putting in a 1,000 mile trip one way, for a daytime of immersion reenacting surrounded by an evening and morning of modern chit-chat, isn't worth it when I can get that at many events within a 500 mile drive.

Ya know, maybe that's what it comes down to for me, when deciding what events to attend (though everyone else's mileage may vary of course, no pun intended :tounge_sm ). What increase in authenticity and immersion can I experience in exchange for a 1,000 mile drive that I can't get after a 500 mile one? At the events I usually attend, camping with only what you can carry, being harrassed by soldiers, having stuff constantly searched and stolen, and having everything be totally open-ended and unexpected, requiring spur-of-the-moment, period-appropriate problem-solving, is pretty much the norm, so that's good, but not a huge magnet.

Not allowing modern talk (and actually enforcing the rule), not allowing hidden modern items like cameras (except modern medicine), and not allowing any place or time to "take a break" from the reenactment once it goes live, are all commonly supported and achievable as a carpe event, and are becoming more common to find and achieve as the official civilian guidelines. So I now generally look for those things either as a civilian-wide minimum, or have plans to do a carpe eventum like that with a few friends, with the blessing of the organizers.

Also pretty normal is encouraging and facilitating all civilians to develop realistic backgrounds and ongoing situations from before the start of the event, so there's something to care about and talk about besides modern life. In my experience, that's what it takes to motivate people to stay in character and thus require minimal enforcement. Without it, they have too much empty "brain space" that's filled with modern stuff, and it inevitably comes out. :-)

So if I can get all the above a few times a year within a 500-mile radius, I'd expect those things to be announced as a minimum, with some confidence-inspiring plans in place to actual achieve them. I can't think of any specific way-cool factor that would overcome a real break-down in most of the above things.

The one neat new thing that looks enticing is actually covering five miles in a straight line rather than being moved to various sites within a smaller acreage, because it's darn hard to get that much linear land clearance.

But having said all that, I've been told that the very things I've mentioned above, that would entice me to an event, are not what others want, and would in fact discourage them from coming. I do know of other reenactors who want the same thing, and they usually wind up at all the same events I go to. But I also know of other reenactors who don't want those things and carefully choose events to avoid them or try to fudge the rules as far as possible at events they do attend. So go figure.

In my opinion, it's really up to the organizers to decide what their target group is and shape the event to please them, realizing that things which attract some people will discourage others.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net