Purses

[SouthernByMarriage]

I'm making several purses from patterns in Godey's and Peterson's.
One of the purses is a long double-ended purse, now called miser's purses although not sure if they had a name back then.
Anyway, I have seen illustrations and one actual purse. There are two metal "slides", or rings that close the purse opening in the center.
I've been brainstorming as to what I could use for the slides.
So far, I've covered plastic rings with thread which works, but I'm not sure how authentic that would be.
I thought about silver napkin rings, but think that they are a bit too large.
Is there anyone out there with any ideas?
Have any of you made the double ended purses?
I wonder if there is a period metal worker out there who makes or could make such things.
Thanks,
DeAnn Upton

[Hank Trent]

Re: Purses

I feel like I'm overlooking some obvious problem, since I don't have the illustrations to look at, but if plastic rings are the right shape, is there a reason that plain brass rings wouldn't work also?

http://www.woodedhamlet.com/buttons_clasps/o_rings.html

If those are too small, there are larger ones here

http://www.reefscuba.com/brass2.htm

You might be able to find them locally at farm-supply stores that carry bridle and harness parts, or maybe hardware stores also.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[SouthernByMarriage]

Re: Purses

I will definitely go to the hardware store and see what I can find.
Does anyone know if men carried these double ended purses?
DeAnn Upton

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Purses

I will definitely go to the hardware store and see what I can find.
Does anyone know if men carried these double ended purses?
DeAnn Upton

I have found brass rings at craft stores in the macrame area.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Purses

Does anyone know if men carried these double ended purses?
DeAnn Upton

Ms. Upton,

I am by no means an expert on this, however, I have never read of a man possessing a purse, only a wallet.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Purses

I've run across a few mentions of men carrying purses in the period, but I don't know what sort of object the word "purse" was referring to. Here's an example from the May 1863 Harper's Monthly where "purse" and "wallet" are used interchangeably. Two soldiers are trying to swindle a meal without paying for it.

Well, the dinner was in due season cooked, eaten, and pronounced good. 'Now, landlord,' said The[odore], pulling out his purse with the air of a millionare, 'what's the bill?' 'One dollar for both of yer,' said the host. 'Very reasonable--very,' remarked The, in a patronizing way, examining his wallet the while, as though looking for something.

Another example, from 1859: "He pulled out his purse and gave the child three or four large gold pieces."

One thing complicating the question is the fact that "wallet" in the period could also refer to a long sack with an access hole in the middle, which would be more like an oversized miser's purse than what we think of as a wallet.

And something else I've wondered about. Typical period men's wallets (the little leather ones) aren't really built for carrying coins. Especially in the pre-war days before stamps and paper money edged out coins as a major medium of exchange, how did men carry coins? Just loose in their pockets? Or were men's "purses" referring to what we'd call a "change purse," a small pouch-like thing for holding coins?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[SouthernByMarriage]

Re: Purses

Exactly Hank,
That's what I was thinking.
Coins were more predominant than paper money, right?
I had also heard the same thing about the wallets not being made to hold coins.
The woman's purse I am making is the miser's purse type with the opening in the middle. It is built that way for gold coins in one end, silver in the other.
I had heard of men in a later period hanging it over the belt---when belts for men were worn more. Since belts for women were popular, perhaps women did that too in the CW era---hung the bag over the belt.
Why couldn't I make one in a less fancy pattern for a man to hold his coins.
I just purchased an original miser's type purse with the popular steel beads off of ebay. Can't wait til I get a good look at it.
DeAnn

[Hank Trent]

Re: Purses

Coins were more predominant than paper money, right?

Before the war, I'd say yes, and of course habits would carry over from them when the war began. During the war in the north, postage stamps and postal currency substituted for the shortage of coinage, though coins and store tokens were still around of course. Haven't researched the south as much, but I'd guess coinage was in shorter supply there as well.

And then there's the other issue, that the majority of store sales in typical hometown store ledger books aren't for cash at all, but are on account. Travelers would have more need of cash, since they wouldn't have accounts set up, but I wonder how often the average person, shopping in their hometown, carried money with them? Or was it like today, where we usually carry money anyway, even if we plan to use a credit or debit card for what we're going to purchase?

The woman's purse I am making is the miser's purse type with the opening in the middle. It is built that way for gold coins in one end, silver in the other.
I had heard of men in a later period hanging it over the belt---when belts for men were worn more. Since belts for women were popular, perhaps women did that too in the CW era---hung the bag over the belt.
Why couldn't I make one in a less fancy pattern for a man to hold his coins.
I just purchased an original miser's type purse with the popular steel beads off of ebay. Can't wait til I get a good look at it.
DeAnn

If you've got a subscription to the online Godey's or some way to access the issues, check out the February 1862 issue, p. 182. There's a pattern for a "gentleman's purse in crochet" that's the miser's purse style. I wonder what the context was for carrying/using such a thing? Was it something most men would have in some form or the other, or only for dandies, or one of those things that women liked to make for men who rarely used them? Because there's also the other option, the single-bag clasp-type purse, and maybe other shapes/styles as well.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Anna Allen]

Re: Purses

Anyway, I have seen illustrations and one actual purse. There are two metal "slides", or rings that close the purse opening in the center.
I've been brainstorming as to what I could use for the slides.
Thanks,
DeAnn Upton

I made a beaded miser's purse and used a pair of rings you can find at a department store. You know, the kind of ring you put on you finger. ;) The only problem is finding two rings exactly alike, but it might not be too much of a problem. They worked perfectly for me as they weren't too large or small.

[SouthernByMarriage]

Re: Purses

The Department Store ring idea is a good one. If there were two simple sterling silver men's rings in a decent size......

I wrote a compilation of oral history stories about the first settlers of Mississippi, time period early 1800's. These were rural people and many times it was mentioned that they had no money, everything was on a trade basis. The only reason I mention this is that perhaps during the war many of the very rural folk probably had no need of money as Hank said.

What would the soldier have carried? Was everything stashed in pockets?

I will try to find the Godey's pattern you mentioned.
Is there a link to an online source?
DeAnn Upton

[Anna Kraus]

Re: Purses

I have a question. The miser purse that you are describing sound very much like an item in attempting to make. Its called a traveling bag and the instructions were offered in 1864 (sorry I dont know what month as I have only found examples of the bag and the year of the magazine they found the bag in)

I was wondering if anyone had these directions they would be willing to share. I have the bag cut out to the best of ability based on the info I have been able to find but would like to have it as close to the directions as possible.

Here are three examples I have located

http://www.octagonlr.com/WS%20Ladies%20Accessories.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36041&item=2263177469&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2263178224&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSII_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
Thank you !!

[Hank Trent]

Re: Purses

Here are the directions from December 1864 Godey's:

THIS elegant travelling-bag is especially suitable for a lady. It is made in the shape of a very large purse, and is of violet rep embroidered in white. These colors may, of course, be changed according to taste. Two and a half yards of rep or other woollen material, twenty-seven inches in breadth, are required, and the same quantity of white calico for lining; two and a quarter yards of silk fringe, and five skeins of white embroidery silk for the trimming; two ivory rings, and some pearl buttons. The pattern is not worked twice on the same side of the purse, but on one side at one end and on the opposite side at the other, so that both patterns may show when the bag hangs over the arm. The bag is entirely lined, a pocket is formed on each side, and a slit is made in the centre of the bag exactly in the same way as in a purse; two rings are slipped over, and the slit is further fastened by pearl buttons and silk loops. Each pocket is edged with silk fringe up to the slit in the middle. These pockets are very convenient to hold the numberless small articles which a lady always wishes to have by her during a journey. The embroidery is worked in satin stitch, the inner part of the pine pattern being filled up with colored silk. The material should be stretched over a frame in order to be worked neatly. The bag is very easy to make up, being, in fact, nothing but a purse of very large dimensions, The embroidery can easily be dispensed with, and a useful bag made of plain materials. One of the advantages that this bag possesses over the ordinary kind is that it really has a graceful appearance when properly carried, which can scarcely be said of many travelling poaches.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Anna Kraus]

Re: Purses

Mr Trent,

I truly appreciate your taking the time to locate these instructions for me and post them. I did not expect a reply so quickly. Thank you !!

Ive never heard of Rep (is it still made or is woollen a modern replacement?)

My bag doesnt quite look like the pics I have seen so im back to the drawing board (litterally !!) Its not as curved on the bottom

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Purses

Ive never heard of Rep (is it still made or is woollen a modern replacement?)

I found two definitions of rep in two post period books.

From _Scissors and Yardstick_ by Brown and Gates (1872)

Rep was mentioned in the definition of Russell Cord. "A heavy, black dress, composed of wool, or cotton or wool. The warp is double, forming a rep or cord, running lengthwise of the fabric. Single fold. Width, 27 to 30 inches."

Rep was more thoroughly defined in _Encyclopedia of Dry Goods_ by George Cole (1892). "Rep. Corrupted from 'rib.' A style of weaving in which the surface presents a transeverse-ribbed appearance by close, round twills or cords extending in a diagonal direction across the web. 'Furniture rep' is a flowered cotton goods woven in this manner. 'Worsted rep' is used for upholstering and curtains, and is 1 1/2 yards wide, dyed in solid colors. 'Silk rep' is used for ladies' dresses, ecclesiastical vestments, etc., nad is narrow, usually 22 inches. The word is also applied to a thin worsted dress goods. In a general sense rep is used to describe any transverseeeeely-ribbed cloth, as distinct from 'cords,' which are of similar structure, but extending lengthwise of the fabric."

I don't recall seeing rep fabric sold today but I really haven't looked. I have heard it used when describing men's neckties.

[Anna Kraus]

Re: Purses

Does anyone have the directions for the miser purse? I dont have access to the older godeys books (mine begin at 1892) and have tried to find instructions online but havent be able to locate any. I would love a change purse for my reticule.

Thank you very much