Ladies White Blouse

[hpotter]

I have heard that younger ladies 25 and under during the antebellum period could get away with wearing plain white cotton blouses with their skirts. Can anyone let me know if this is true.


Heath Potter

[Anna Allen]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Hm... In CdVs you'll mostly find young ladies and women wearing a jacket or a type of waist worn with the white bodice. I have seen a few images of just the white bodice and skirt but they look to be late to post war images.

Here are some images of the white bodice worn with a type of waist.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Heath, it's a big topic. :)

Short summary: yes, some stylish young women did wear fine white bodices with contrasting skirts and jackets. It is not an easy thing to pull off well, but when well done, is lovely. Some common aspects of the period style:

* Worn over a corset.
* The white fabric is very fine: nearly sheer to very sheer cotton batiste or lawn, sheer silks, or sheer wools.
* The skirt fabric and jacket fabric are equally fine: good silk tafettas, fine, firmly woven wools.
* Worn with very good quality accessories: fine stockings, delicate leather boots or shoes, fashionable bonnet, parasol, gloves.

Last time I did a conservative estimate of the costs of doing a really well-done white bodice set, it ran about $600 in fabrics and accessories, and that's doing the sewing at home.

The merchant row version of white utility muslin shirts with printed cotton skirts does not match the period fashion in any way other than "covering nakedness."

If you're needing a simple fashion for a younger woman, there are far easier and less expensive options. :) More later...

[Spinster]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Heath,

Mrs. Clark has abley outlined the broader essense of what I told you by private messsage--the "white blouse thing" is extremely hard to pull off well, and is really a 'niche' impression--not a quick and easy one.

A beginner is far better served with a good corset, a basic set of underpinnings, a plain dress, and a basic hairstyle.

I offer as example a young woman I dealt with last weekend--when we first saw her, she had on an untucked blouse, matching heavy skirt, and undressed hair in a 'snood' (through no fault of her own, it was a first good event for her and another had dressed her). She stood out rather badly as 'not like the others' and not correct. Her chaperone placed her in our hands and marched off to do his duty.

When she left our hands about an hour and a half later, her lovely hair was center parted, twisted into long plaits, put up, pinned and netted. Her 'snood' had been disappeared to the nether world where such things should go. Her blouse had been tucked in, darted, and sewn to her skirt. Certainly not 100%, but she then 'looked somewhat like the others' and did not stand out as incorrect.

Walk before you attempt to run. Really.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Mrs L, you don't happen to have before and after images, have you?

[hpotter]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

What is the difference between having your hair netted and having it in a snood?

Heath,

Mrs. Clark has abley outlined the broader essense of what I told you by private messsage--the "white blouse thing" is extremely hard to pull off well, and is really a 'niche' impression--not a quick and easy one.

A beginner is far better served with a good corset, a basic set of underpinnings, a plain dress, and a basic hairstyle.

I offer as example a young woman I dealt with last weekend--when we first saw her, she had on an untucked blouse, matching heavy skirt, and undressed hair in a 'snood' (through no fault of her own, it was a first good event for her and another had dressed her). She stood out rather badly as 'not like the others' and not correct. Her chaperone placed her in our hands and marched off to do his duty.

When she left our hands about an hour and a half later, her lovely hair was center parted, twisted into long plaits, put up, pinned and netted. Her 'snood' had been disappeared to the nether world where such things should go. Her blouse had been tucked in, darted, and sewn to her skirt. Certainly not 100%, but she then 'looked somewhat like the others' and did not stand out as incorrect.

Walk before you attempt to run. Really.

[Spinster]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Mrs L, you don't happen to have before and after images, have you?

Wish we did Liz, but I just never carry a camera.

Heath--someone else will have to supply images, for the above mentioned reasons.

A snood is one of those strechy nylon things that some sutlers sell and some folks cram their loose hair into and call it period. It is not. Snoods were in style long about 1940 something, and are really nice for WWII impressions, but only in certain colors. They do not belong in 1860.

And, a quick review of the Original images supplied by Miss Allen will indicate that NoOne is wearing anything that could be mistaken for a snood.

Now, said young lady had one on, well, because somebody sold it to her :confused_ . And that's part of the reason we are dancing around this white blouse thing so carefully with you---somewhere, someone is likely trying to sell it to you and tell you its right, when it can only barely be right in certain very special circumstances and interpretations.

So, in order to make her hair right, we dissappeared the snood. Then, we got out a can of pomade and a period hair brush(all the while explaining that one simply would not have been sitting on a bench beside a turnpike, dressing hair in public, but well, here we are )

I ran my hands through the pomade can and then through her long lovely hair, working the pomade through the full length, and giving a caution that it would hold the hair in place, but would take several washings to remove. I then center parted the hair.

At that point, Kimberlee took over, because she is better at incorporating whispy bangs than I. She rolled side sections of the hair back into two long twists, crossed and pinned them at the neck, then flipped the remaining hair up and through in a smooth roll at the nape of the neck, also secured with hair pins. The pomade keeps all this from flying about. Dirty hair helps too. Finally, an 'invisible net' covers the whole thing and is secured. You might know this as a 'cafeteria lady' hair net--very thin see-through hair net.

If we'd had an extra decorative net to loan, we'd have placed it over that. Or a bonnet. But not a snood.

Sometimes, at some events The WatchDog runs a 'improve your impression' tent. That place would be an excellent place to show up and learn.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Mr Potter, don't forget to either type your first/last name with each post, or eles configure your automatic signature in the User CP (control panel)--there's a link in the top navigation bar.

If you visit http://www.thegracefullady.com and go into the 1860s clothing section, then look at "headcoverings"--Anna Allen has some lovely images of correctly-done hairnets, and then, for contrast, a big old rayon snood. :) They're as different as apples and cats.

A hairnet is made of very finely netted threads, as Mrs Lawson describes. It often has some decorative element along the top, and is worn usually from the ears back, over dressed (fixed up) hair.

A "snood" is usually in fat man-made threads, and swiveled on over loose hair, like a stretchy colander for so much cooked spaghetti. Not nice.

Mrs L, I'm in a similar boat--any event that I'd really like pictures of, bringing out a camera would wreck the ambiance. :) So, I've a lot of mental pictures, and no physical ones. It gets me out of the local hobby of "scrapbooks".

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Pre/post event photos. I've even gotten some known "paragons of authenticity" to stand still for a likeness after an event has ended -- sometimes with the caveat that, if the photograph is shown publicly, it must be with a disclaimer indicating that it was taken after the event had concluded.

This presupposes, of course, that you have the logistical means for your camera to track you down at the end of the event, or depart from you at the beginning.

Ron Myzie
knows something about photos

[Anna Worden Bauersmith]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

What is the difference between having your hair netted and having it in a snood?

In a hurry this morning - so just a quick post.

If you have interest in a detailed explaination look here: http://www.geocities.com/shadowofthe...etarticle.html

To see a good example of an original net look here: http://www.geh.org/taschen/htmlsrc1/...tml#topofimage


The word snood didn't become a noun until the 20th century. It was a verb that referred to the action of netting one's hair. It was a Rarely used verb during our era. (Compact Oxford English Dictionary)

About pictures - I found a solution. I have a cousin who loves taking lots and lots and lots of pictures. She comes to a few events as a visitor and takes pictures. I just need to start giving her a list of some things I usually miss.

Anna Worden

[Deborah Hyland]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Terre and I talked about this transformation at Shaker Village. The poor girl was glaringly obvious Saturday morning and then I never saw her again, or so I thought. It wasn't until I heard about Kimberlee's efforts in transformation that I looked and looked for her and finally noticed her--The girl had been there all along, but had simply faded into the crowd--as it should be.

[Ginger Lane]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Some common aspects of the period style:

* Worn over a corset.
* The white fabric is very fine: nearly sheer to very sheer cotton batiste or lawn, sheer silks, or sheer wools.
* The skirt fabric and jacket fabric are equally fine: good silk tafettas, fine, firmly woven wools.
* Worn with very good quality accessories: fine stockings, delicate leather boots or shoes, fashionable bonnet, parasol, gloves.

Last time I did a conservative estimate of the costs of doing a really well-done white bodice set, it ran about $600 in fabrics and accessories, and that's doing the sewing at home.

Elizabeth, can you elaborate on how much of this cost is direct materials for the ensemble, and how much is accessories? I'm curious! :tounge_sm

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

I summarized it for the recent special edition of the Citizen's Companion. Here's a recap, assuming that the wearer already owns chemise, drawers, petticoats, skirt supports, underskirts, and well-fitted corset:

* Bodice lining, $10 (glazed light cotton or linen, $6-$10/yard, about 1 yard needed)
* Bodice fashion fabric, $60 (accurate sheer cotton, silk, or wool, about 3 yards needed depending on sleeve and bodice style)
* Skirt fabric, $100-$200 (averaging $20 a yard for silk tafetta, 4-5 yards minimum required, more depending on style choices and width of fabric)
* Jacket fabric $60-$100 (silk again, 2-3 yards needed)
* Jacket lining $30 (using polished cotton or linen, flat lining jacket)
* Trims, $20 (though this could be exponentially more for a braided design)

So, just looking at the actual garments themselves, ignoring all accessory items needed to round out the proper look, and not factoring in "screaming deals" on fabric, you'd be in the range of $380.

Then add in:
The cost of the entire understructure (chemise through corset mentioned above)
The cost of patterns
The cost of muslin testing
The cost of any labor you hire
The cost of a good fashion bonnet ($150 average)
The cost of a good parasol (another $150 average)
The cost of belts, waists, sashes, jewelry... there's really no limit there.

To do it well adds up fast.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

She'll never say it but Anna Allen has the idea fully done well when she reproduced a white blouse and Swiss waist which can be found at: http://www.thegracefullady.com/civil...lyssagowns.htm

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Ladies White Blouse

Yes! Anna's ensemble on her site is an example of combining good period design with the appropriate fabrics, and worn by a woman of the correct age and bearing. It's a wonderful example!