Overalls

[Silvana Siddali]

I've been looking at the Past Patterns overalls pattern, 901. http://pastpatterns.com/910.html


As you see the pattern is dated 1870-1901, but the additional information posted on the web site indicates that overalls were worn from the late 1830s onward. The trouble is that I've never seen any photos, illustrations, or originals of prewar overalls; can anyone point me to some research on this garment? A search here didn't turn up anything, but who knows what might have been lost in the recent crash.

I'd be grateful for any help you could give. Thanks.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Overalls

Don't know a lot about them, but one early image of bib front overalls is this genre painting by William Sidney Mount, "The Power of Music," 1847:

http://www.sawdustsymphony.com/update_db/contact/images/clip_image001_002.jpg

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Brian Baird]

Re: Overalls

There are good notes in the pattern.
Brian Baird

[lawson]

Re: Overalls

Wow, cool painting. It appears the gentlemen playing the fiddle is wearing a forge cap. Am I possibly mistaken? Love how the negro gents' coat is patched. Wow!

[Deborah Hyland]

Re: Overalls

Brian is correct; there are excellent notes and illustrations in the pattern. I own it & you're welcome to look at it.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Overalls

It appears the gentlemen playing the fiddle is wearing a forge cap.

Do you mean "forage" cap, or is that a blacksmithing name for it? Since this is the 1840s, I don't think it's a forage cap exactly, but I don't know what you call them specifically. They tend to show up in images of young men and boys. There's a little better view of one in this painting here, on the boy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/William_Sidney_Mount_001.jpg/747px-William_Sidney_Mount_001.jpg

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Silvana Siddali]

Re: Overalls

Thanks, Hank. Great image. I love Wm Sidney Mount's work -- always such a revelation!

Thanks Deborah, too, I'll take you up on it!

[Sherry Key]

Re: Overalls

Yes, I own it too, thanks in great part to seeing Mr. Larry in them at Franklin and how great and comfortable they looked.

It was extremely easy but there is one caveat...apparently I purchased an early version of the pattern (later versions were corrected) and there was one error on it. I should have know better but tend to follow the pattern thinking there is some reason I am not aware of. One of the two main pieces should be turned face down or you end up with two halves the same (did that make sense?) and this just doesn't work! Also, they are sized to be worn over regular clothing, not by themselves nor with just a shirt and drawers. Saundra Altman was a great help by answering my many questions by email.


Sherry Key.

[Utley]

Re: Overalls

There is at least one picture (I think more, but don't have the book right in front of me at the moment) of men wearing overalls in the book Silver and Gold: Cased Images of the Gold Rush. There is even one negro man wearing them with the bib "crossed" in front. Interesting pictures indeed.

Chris Utley
Carter and Jasper

https://www.carterandjasper.com

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Overalls

Greetings,
I would be fairly uncomfortable wearing the Past Patterns Overalls for an Antebellum or Civil War impression. The style of overalls worn during the war years differ signifigantly from this pattern, which is no secret as even Ms. Altman dates the pattern to 1870-1901.

The earlier style judging by photgraphs, drawings, genre paintings, and the like show overalls with a seam running across the waist and a pieced together bib...anywhere from 2 pieces on up. A few examples even seem to have a button fly incorporated into the construction of the piece. There also seems to be gussets in the back, kind of like US military trousers.

Another common mistake I've seen in the reproduction of overalls based on this pattern by a few "authentic" makers is the incorporation of pockets on the bib. While pockets were often seen down at the waist or hip, overalls with pockets on the actual bib isn't seen in images or catalogs until after the turn of the century in most cases.

Overalls were certainly around prior to the war and during the conflict, there's no doubt about it. However, I would refrain from using the 1970-1901pattern overalls in a CW era impression. I guess it's kind of like military sack coats, they were certainly worn during the war years, but would it be acceptable to wear a 5 button post war example for a 1862 impression? The answer would be no, as there was pattern differences.

When I get a chance I'll dig out some notes and examples to post, so you can see kinda what I'm getting at here with the pattern differences in bib front overalls.

Darrek Orwig

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Overalls

Greetings,
I would be fairly uncomfortable wearing the Past Patterns Overalls for an Antebellum or Civil War impression. The style of overalls worn during the war years differ signifigantly from this pattern, which is no secret as even Ms. Altman dates the pattern to 1870-1901.

The earlier style judging by photgraphs, drawings, genre paintings, and the like show overalls with a seam running across the waist and a pieced together bib...anywhere from 2 pieces on up. A few examples even seem to have a button fly incorporated into the construction of the piece. There also seems to be gussets in the back, kind of like US military trousers.

Another common mistake I've seen in the reproduction of overalls based on this pattern by a few "authentic" makers is the incorporation of pockets on the bib. While pockets were often seen down at the waist or hip, overalls with pockets on the actual bib isn't seen in images or catalogs until after the turn of the century in most cases.

Overalls were certainly around prior to the war and during the conflict, there's no doubt about it. However, I would refrain from using the 1970-1901pattern overalls in a CW era impression. I guess it's kind of like military sack coats, they were certainly worn during the war years, but would it be acceptable to wear a 5 button post war example for a 1862 impression? The answer would be no, as there was pattern differences.

In addition to the pieced bib, and sometimes fly, early overalls also have a outseam running down the leg, Ms. Altman's pattern has a one-piece leg. Her pattern can be easily modified to have this pieced bib and outseam, in fact, if you call her she'll explain exactly how to do this. I don't know why most vendors can't spend the extra 30 min. of work to modify their patterns to incorporate these elements instead of selling an 1870-1901 pattern and making excuses. The draft for Ms. Altman's pattern is actually from the 1890s but she stretches the fashionable circa to 1870, but that's as far as it will go unless you modify the pattern. Like Mr. Orwig said, she is perfectly plain about this, no mystery, unless you blindly believe everything "honest" suttlers sell you.

Ian McWherter

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Overalls

I had once posted these somewhere in an overall related thread in the 2005-6 postings . I thought they might contribute to this thread.

[Silvana Siddali]

Re: Overalls

Thanks to all. This information is very helpful. It looks to me as though there's a side-buttoned entry, which is left open in one or two cases (esp in the image of the cotton gin.) Adding a seam at the waist and the outside of the leg should be very simple. I take it that all seams would be felled? Would the bib be bound or lined, do you think?

[lawson]

Re: Overalls

Mr. Trent,
I actually meant 'Forage cap'., but upon looking closer, it does look more like a ' Mechanics Style ' cap. Thanks for clearing up the date, I didn't know it was an earlier image.

Later,

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Overalls

Silvania,
I would recommend picking up the overalls pattern from Past Patterns and then making the neccessary modifications to make it an earlier pattern.
The pattern and the research material that comes with it should answer some of your questions on the garment's construction.

After looking at original images it appears to me that there generally is at least a facing on the top part of the bib in order to offer support for the buttons or buckles used in the straps, and then the rest of bib is either faced or roll hemmed depending on the example. When I get a chance I'll either post or PM you some good resources on period overalls.

Good luck,

Darrek Orwig