Overalls

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Overalls

Greetings,
Hey, my last post was written in a hurry on my way out the door but here's some other details of ca.1856-1865 men's bib front overalls that you might find useful.

The straps are generally fairly narrow and can be either stitched or buttoned at the rear and at this time it seems that pre-1874 overalls usually have a button instead of a buckle to secure the straps in place on front of the chest. The most common material for overalls for this period is going to be denim (the white back blue denim doesn't become common until the early
20th century) and to a lesser extent waterproof material. Side openings generally have a single button closure at the top of the "slit" for the 1856-1865 time period, with later styles having a two button closure. The slits send to be reinforced to prevent tearing.

The garments for this time period can be without pockets but it seems that two patch pockets in the front below the waist level is very common as are two back patch pockets in addition. Pockets on the bib are not correct for this time period.

Overalls tend to be a mass produced item of clothing with the first commercial "do it at home" patterns for these garments coming out in the early 1870's.

The Past Patterns bib overalls pattern is a great pattern for post war impressions especially for open air museums with sites in the 1880's through the turn of the century. Many people are very thankful for the develoment of this pattern and it definately fills a hole in the living history interpretation community...just not the civil war era which is clearly stated along with the pattern.

I hope this helps, if you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

Darrek Orwig

[tmdreb]

Re: Overalls

I had once posted these somewhere in an overall related thread in the 2005-6 postings . I thought they might contribute to this thread.

That first image looks like very high-waisted trousers to me, unless they're some form of overalls that isn't bib front. It really looks like the top band goes all the way around the body at about the same level.

[Spinster]

Re: Overalls

Phil--I believe that's what they are--overalls without a bib front.

I'm currently messing around with a circa 1812 pattern drafting with the following features:

(1) No Bib
(2) High Waist
(3) Seamed legs
(4) With a narrowness in the knee and upper calf area that then is flared at the lower leg with a large pieced gusset. Think 1960's bell bottoms, only pieced.
(5) Pockets I can't describe yet.

In this earlier form, they really are 'cartoonish' looking to my eyes. And the garment just makes me think 'heavy lifting done here'.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Overalls

Here's a guess at a photo of the non-bib kind of overalls.

It's in American Album by Jensen, Kerr and Belsky, p. 68, but it may also be online. It's a photo of John Wesley Powell on his 1869 western expedition, standing beside a Paiute chief, Tau-gu. Photo taken by J.K. Hillers, US Geological Survey.

The chief is wearing a pair of ill-fitting, slightly-oversize, stiff-looking pants.

According to a report published in 1867, available on Making of America--Michigan, Condition of the Indian tribes.: Report of the joint special committee, appointed under joint resolution of March 3, 1865, the Paiute ("Pah-utes") Indians were given several hundred pairs of "overalls" in the 1860s.

I'm guessing that the pants the chief is wearing, are those overalls.

Edited to add: found the photo online http://historyforkids.utah.gov/fun_a...hoto_large.jpg

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Cottoncarder]

Re: Overalls

Know the Paiut were extreme west, but the chief looks like there was some Commanche/Apache influence as well. Note the shirt and the shape of his face which is part of the bone structure and has nothing to do with nurishment. His sharp features do not display general features of far west; namely round face. Terrain could be any where from Death Valley California to West Texas. Who was he exactly? One of the two, either his momma or daddy was not Paiut.

Hank, don't doubt your citation, but would put the period at the turn of the century. The textile on his shirt appears to be machine woven and looks very much early 1900s Apache.

[tmdreb]

Re: Overalls

Mrs. Lawson,

That sounds fascinating! Where did you get that pattern from?

[Spinster]

Re: Overalls

Scrabbled it out from some tattered old plunder in the hands of an aged long-trekker.

Let me mess with it some more, see what I can work out, and I'll draw you one out. I'm hoping to make it up for one of our indentured men.

As we look more down this path, we need to remember to look with 19th century eyes. Our modern eyes think overalls=bib.

I think what we are really looking for here are outsized rough trousers designed to be worn over other clothing to protect that clothing.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Overalls

Greetings,
Bib front overalls are far from modern, there is ample documentation of them being worn during the 19th century and in the Antebellum period.

There's an awesome image out there of a pair of Overall trousers (without the bib) that are being worn by a '49er as he's working his claim. The pants can be easily seen rising from the top of the overalls and how the subject is positioned makes it a great historical image. I believe it's in Joann Severa's book, Dressed for the Photographer.

Darrek Orwig

[tmdreb]

Re: Overalls

Thanks! I'd really love to see that. I also do 1835-36 events on occasion, so the early patterns really interest me.

Darrek, I don't think Mrs. Lawson meant that bib overalls didn't exist in the 19th Century. I believe she meant that to most modern people, all overalls have a bib front, which wasn't the case in the 19th Century.

[Spinster]

Re: Overalls

Phil is correct in understanding my meaning.

[tmdreb]

Re: Overalls

Here's a bigger version of "The Power of Music". It seems like the overalls are cut like a pair of pants, but with a bib added where the waistband would be.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Overalls

Greetings,
In regards to my post concerning Mrs. Lawson's statements I was attempting to clarify one of the key points of the discussion, it really seems the thread has generated alot of interest and I wanted to make sure everyone involved had a clear understanding of the material being shared. All too often there seems to be a fair bit of confusion in men's citizen fashions among reenactors for the time period during the Rebellion.

"The Power of Music" is an incredible image and easily one of my favorite Mount paintings. The bib front overalls being worn are similar to other overalls of the period even though the sides are obscurred by the fellow's coat. These hidden details under the coat would probably include open slits along the outer side seams closed with a single button and an angled shape to the sides of the bib. One note on the garment from this image being discussed is that the low bib is somewhat less common in comparison to the higher bib front overalls seen in other genre paintings, photographs, and drawings from the period.

In I think my last post I mentioned a Gold Rush era photograph that showed a pair of mid 19th century overall trousers being worn. The image is dated 1852 and currently resides in the California State Library. The garment fits about like a pair of regular trousers of the period although obviously baggier, the waist is lower, there is no fly incorporated into the garment, no pockets, and suspender buttons are keeping the trousers up. From my research these seem to be a a fairly representive pair of overall trousers from the period.

If you have any questions please feel free to PM or email me. Over the years as a museum professional I have done a signifigant amount of research on men's clothing from the middle part of the 19th century and have begun work on a book regarding the subject.

Darrek Orwig

[Silvana Siddali]

Re: Overalls

Thanks, Darrek -- best of luck with that book. I know that will be a useful resource for all of us.

I have one last question about this image. Am I right in assuming that the pocket on his right hip is a slash pocket with a flap?

[tmdreb]

Re: Overalls

I see that pocket as well. It looks like it's right about the same angle and placement as on a pair of broadfall trousers (under the flap).

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Overalls

Greetings,
I've never really felt it was a flap but more likely the welt from a slash pocket or possibly even the top faced part of a patch pocket. I've seen similar pocket arrangements on fly front trousers from the middle part of the 19th century.

I'm away from my notes currently, but I don't remember seeing any material in regards to flapped pockets on overalls. I'll take a look and get back to you on it.

Darrek Orwig