Bagpipes In the War

[jchristiansen]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

Many of the Castle Pinckney photos Mr. Runyon refers to are in the Photographic History of the Civil War, in the volume on Hospitals and Prisons.

John Christiansen
33rd Wisconsin

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

Thanks John, That is where many of the Pickney photos appear, among other texts. They are usually easily recognizable as the boys are usually standing infront of stone doorways that have some sort or name penned over them. One I believe reads "Hotel de Zouave"

[Csayankee]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

Hello all,

Well I agree that some form of pipes were played in the US during the war before and after. Some of what I have heard about there use today is lack of evidence in the South. It would be interesting to find evidence in the south in areas with high numbers of Irish or Scotts. My family settled starting around as early as 1790 in Canada. There is accounts that the MacInnis(MacInnes) clan settled in North and South Carolina in the early 1800's. Does anybody have any evidence of use of pipes in the south. Irish pipes or Scott Pipes...


Thanks
Daniel MacInnis

[hutchpat]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

As long as you're looking for bagpipes in the Civil War, don't limit yourself to Celtic ethnic groups. There were large numbers of Germans in America at the time (as everyone knows), as well as Czechs, known then as "Bohemians," who tended to settle where the Germans were. Both cultures had bagpipes, thought of as a rustic instrument. A popular Czech opera from the early 1900s was "Schwanda der Dudelsackpfeiffer," or "Schwanda the Bagpiper," based on old Czech folk tales. Anyone in a German/Middle European group or impression might want to research the presence of bagpipes in their camp as well.

Dear Sir,
As the discussion has been moved to the non-military area, we encourage all posters to focus on the non-military presence of piped instruments, rather than their possible use in any war setting.

Also, one of the few rules of the forums is that every post must be signed with the full, real name of the contributor. Please edit your "automatic Signature" in your User Profile to include your first and last names.

Regards, Elizabeth Clark, Homefront Co-Moderator

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

Daniel, you might look for social reporting in newspapers from the Cape Fear area, and surrounding; there are high concentrations of Scots immigrants in that area, and social gatherings and such may be reported in local newspapers of the time.

[RJSamp]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

GGG Grandmother Rosalie Klecker was from Bohemia. Family Settled near Campbellsport, Ashford Township, Fond du Lac County, Wisconsin Territory (just prior to 1848 Statehood).

Her sister, Barbara, was dating Amand Grab (evenutally my GGG Grandfather), a German. Barbara dumped Amand, broke his young heart, married a Thelen (German) which is a very prominent area family.

After the War, Amand comes home, dates the blonde younger sister, Rosalie, and marries her. So Barbara gets her come-upance. Rosalie and Amand's first daughter, named Barbara, marries Gustav Samp my GG Grandfather. Cecil, Hartland Township, Shawano County, Wisconsin, in 1887.

The Samp's, Grab's, and Klecker's were known for their musical abilities. Carol Grab Hartmann and Helen Jean Samp both Music Majors at UW MAdison. Grandpa Edward Samp played cornet at the UW, GG Grand Father Gustav founded the Cecil Silver Cornet band and played MANY instruments as needed.
Not only did the Samp's host Sunday Mass for the future St. Martin's church goers (it was being built), but they were involved with the Sunday concerts in the Park as well.

Rosalie was a soprano and played the piano.

And eventually Grandfather Edward Samp marries Margaret Helen Sullivan from the Bloody 4th Ward on the West Side of Madison. That's where the Irish and German's used to duke it out after a couple of growlers (that's a pail of beer for a nickel).

Another story. GGG uncle Conrad Mizer was instrumental in getting weekly Concerts in the Park going in Cleveland Ohio. Their is a park memorial Statue to his hard work (hey, and a website based picture of it). 7,000 attended his funeral in 1903, world famous music directors directed the band at the 1907 memorial unveiling, and World Class Opera singer Marie Velguth Mizer (father was a Corporal in the 4th MO Cavalry, US) sang for the funeral services.

I use an 1880's Bohemian made Bb Trumpet, rotary valve, copper with German Silver fittings (nickel plated brass). Only $350, as opposed to an 1862 instrument costing thousands and can't leave in a tent or have a horse (or RJ falling off ofone) land on it.

Germans, Irish, Bohemians. BRASS BANDS.

Long story short.

NO BAGPIPES.

It's time to become Plain , Everyday, and Common. PEC.

Learn to ride a horse, hitch up a buggy, sing 50 church hymns with the verses only (no music allowed, EVERYONE already knows the tunes), and cook a chicken dinner starting with a LIVE chicken. That's PEC. If you can already do this, then you are ahead of most of us and on your way to becoming authentic.....as a civilian or a military authentic reenactor.

That would advance the hobby. Bohemian bagpipes. I am absolutely ecstatic that you have learned how to wash your fine wool clothes.....and no you don't use water.

RJ Samp

rjsamp@ameritech.net

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Bagpipes In the War

Actually, Mr. Samp, the posts shared previously on the thread point to limited use of bagpipes in some civilian social settings. Primary sources positively refute a blanket "no pipes" statement.

I agree that they are not anything common for military use, and not so common as the popular brass band for everyday life. Your suggestions for common musical skills and such of the time are excellent--but the condescending comments and blanket statements are not needed.

I'm not "up" on brass instruments, but in the interests of Period Correctness, how accurate is it to reproduce brass band music with an instrument from two decades post-war, rather than a reproduction of one from the actual war years or before? Substituting one era for another won't work with Scottish things.

With pipes and other Things Scottish, there is a problem of using modern Highland Nostalgia, or even late Victorian Highland Nostalgia, and considering it "period correct"--this is incorrect, and is what most balk at regarding the use of appropriate ethnic bits in any impression: the kilted "Rob Roy meets The Games Tent" soldier squeaking out "Highland Cathedral" at 10pm.

That, however, is not what we're discussing here: we're discussing what, if any, accurate uses for bagpipes can be found in the non-military world of the 1860s, and what, if any, application that has to civilian reenactment.

So far, the general concensus is:

In some limited, upper-middle to upper class social clubs, bagpipes and other "Highland Revival" items were used, possibly in mimic of Queen Victoria's popular revival (and in some cases, re-invention) of Scottish culture. They are not a common, or even "atypical-but-enough-to-represent" element of military reenactment. Which is why the whole thread is being discussed in the Civilian sections, rather than any military section.

Everyone, please continue to share Non Military, primary source mentions of cultural items...