For when I'm feeling fancy.....

[Cracker Line]

Everyone,


What's the difference between a Frock Coat and a Paletot? Which was more common? What kind of fabrics were used on paletots? where can I get the most accurate pattern for whichever is the most common?

Oh so many questions, but oh so little time.....

Thanks!
Adam Cripps
CLG

[annarose]

Re: For when I'm feeling fancy.....

If I remember correctly, Homespun patterns, by James Country has a very nice paletot pattern.

[J_Étienne]

Re: For when I'm feeling fancy.....

Adam,
Since nobody else answered some of your questions, I'll jump in and try my best!

What's the difference between a Frock Coat and a Paletot?

According to R.L. Shep in the glossary which proceeds the Salisbury drafting system in his book, Civil War Gentlemen: 1860s Apparel Arts & Uniforms, a paletot is identical to a frock coat in every respect EXCEPT that there is no waist seam in front; the skirt and front body being cut in one piece. Upon looking at the pattern drafts given, the one which Salisbury refers to as a "Body Paletot" does in every respect look identical to a single breasted frock coat except that the front body and skirt are in one piece.

Later on, however, Salisbury gives the draft for what he calls an "English Walking Coat," which, while it is a paletot as well, looks to me to more closely resemble a sack coat with a slightly closer-fitting back styled after that of a frock coat. I can only speculate that the reason for this would be to allow for a looser-fitting coat to be worn for more casual situations, i.e. perhaps a style that falls somewhere in between the formality of a frock coat and the somewhat informal nature of a sack coat? Anyone else want to chime in here?

What kind of fabrics were used on paletots?

I would presume that anything appropriate to make a frock coat from would also be equally appropriate for a paletot.

where can I get the most accurate pattern for whichever is the most common?

Past Patterns recently released a pattern for an 1850's style unlined, double breasted summer paletot. I haven't used it or seen it personally, but its my understanding from the reviews of others that as-is the styling would be acceptable for a slightly older, more conservative gentleman, or a gentleman living in a slighty more rural setting away from newer fashion trends.

Homespun patterns available from James Country Mercantile has a pattern out for a single breasted civilian frock coat, and I do have personal experience with this one. While its easy to construct, it has a some things that aren't entirely right. There are no commercially manufactured patterns to my knowledge for mens coats that are totally accurate. The most accurate way to go is to get ahold of a copy of a period tailoring system and draft your own pattern. Currently, R.L. Shep offers three such tailoring systems for sale in seperate books:

Salisbury's system of actual measurement and drafting for all styles of coats (contained in the book I mentioned above), The Handbook of Practical Cutting on the Centre Point System by Louis Devere, and The Complete Guide to Practical Cutting by Edward Minister & Son. All three are available for under $30 on rlshep.com.

I hope this has helped you some!

[Cracker Line]

Re: For when I'm feeling fancy.....

Mr. Stevens,

Thank you for the reply! That English Walking Coat may be worth looking into. I'm thinking a nice lightweight wool or cassimere or something for the material. I'm having to do an upper middle-upper class impression since I'm a larger guy. Thanks for the warning on the pattern. I'm 16 so a jacket style for an older guy won't help me much. Anyway, I have another important question.....

Which of the 3 tailoring systems do you recommend I get first? Right now I'm looking for a job and trying to pay for car insurance etc. etc. you know, the typical stuff, and I can't drop $90 on books right now, but I can probably snag one now, and the others once I can get a job (which I'm hoping is soon).

Cheers,
Adam Cripps

[J_Étienne]

Re: For when I'm feeling fancy.....

Which of the 3 tailoring systems do you recommend I get first?

I've had Civil War Gentlemen since I was 14, when my parents got it for me for Christmas, and to be entirely honest, I'm not that wild about the Salisbury system of drafting contained in it. It wasn't until just recently that I started looking at it to potentially use for drafting a coat or two, and even after I've read it and understand it to a certain degree, its still fairly complex and Salisbury doesn't give you complete directions to everything.

Upon the recent suggestion of Kay Gnagey, I purchased a copy of Devere's Handbook of Practical Cutting, and it arrived yesterday morning. So far I am very impressed with it. Not only does it contain more pattern drafts than what Salisbury gives in his system, the way Devere instructs you to measure and then draft is a lot easier just as Kay said it would be. The only caveat to it is that he used special tape measures he invented called graduated tapes, to draft the various patterns above a size 36 chest. Unfortunately the tapes didn't survive with the book RL Shep reprinted, so we're unable to use them with the drafting system. In the back of the book, however, Devere gives instructions on how to use the pattern drafts with the common inch. From reading through it this method requires a lot more calculating and a lot more playing around with drafting the various patterns, but so far it doesn't look very hard to do.

As well as being the most user-friendly in my opinion, and upon the recommendation of Kay Gnagey, the Devere is also the cheapest, costing only $17.95 + $4 shipping if you order it directly from R.L. Shep's supplier. If you choose not to order it direct or top try and find it through your local library, the full title is The Handbook of Practical Cutting on the Centre Point System by Louis Devere, ISBN 0-914046-03-9

[poilu1917]

Re: For when I'm feeling fancy.....

Ok, so I am posting on a 10 year old thread but figured it is better than starting a new one on such a similar topic. I recently ran across a fashion plate in a 1864 Harpers Weekly showing a jacket called a "sacktee". I don't recall ever hearing of that term before so I did some looking around and found it used in other clothing ads from the 1860s along with the usual "sack coat". Here is the fashion plate:



Now from appearance it looks like a "paletot" but we can't see the back in the plate to confirm it. Not wanting to assume, does anyone know if a "sacktee" is just another term for "paletot" or if it had some details that set it apart from such? Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this!